Market America Questions
Sorry to disappoint you all, but the Market America legal team has contacted me and asked me to remove this post. Since I don’t really care much for MA, I am going to do so, simply because it is not worth my time. Apparently they didn’t like that I was in the top 10 on Google for “Market America”. The irony of it is most of my ranking was due to clicks and comments from MA franchise owners.
In my opinion, here is a summary of my post and the comments (completely watered down): Some people have had bad experiences with MA, including me (note, I never joined MA, I just listened to one presentation and that was enough for me.) Others think it is just fine and have made money at it. One thing is for sure, the corporate MA entity has made a lot of money off of the “unfranchise” business model (the irony here, of course, is that corporate MA is just like any other corporation, complete with “Associate General Counsel” threatening to sue.)
I will leave you all with these thoughts: Please, please, please make sure you know what you are doing before signing up for any business. Read the fine print. Do your homework. NO business is without risk, even if they say it is, as MA does here. None. Nunca. Zip. Nada. Get the picture? So, if someone tells you otherwise, red flags should go up. I’m not saying don’t join or anything like that, just saying do your homework first and know what you are getting into. And this goes for all “opportunities”, if it sounds too good to be true, then it probably is. Just know that there are plenty of ways to make money in this country that are legal and safe and they don’t have to involve your friends and family or things that are too complex for you to understand.
DISCLAIMER: Any comments that follow are the OPINIONS of that particular author and do not necessarily reflect my views. Furthermore, I cannot guarantee the accuracy of the statements, good or bad, so, just because it appears on a website does not make it fact.
September 10th, 2007 at 10:03 pm
To become successful in Market America UnFranchise Business,is to retailing,leveraging and duplicating the UnFranchise System.Listen and understand the Basic 5 cds (1-8),attends the NMTSS and the big events of MA just only every 3 times per year.
For me,I don’t think that Market America is a scam business or some people think that this is a pyramid scheme like other mlm companies does.
In Market America,we don’t make money by recruiting people.We make money by retailing the millions of products to the customers.Because,that’s the way the Independent Distributors will earn the BVs and IBVs,not only individual making money,IS EVERYONE MAKING MONEY TOO!
The market america products are highest on demand but is so worth to pay for.Because,their products are proven,effective,high quality and no others can duplicate the market america products.Market America is a private product brokerage company and internet marketing.They are similar to QVC and Amazon.com but is powered and engineered by the people.
Also,think about the Market America web-portal,will you?The marketamerica.com is like you own the giant shopping mall in your area (mall without walls).The customers can easily order the products from there and not only that, It’s so easy to shop and it’s more convenience while the customers is shopping from home with Market America web portal.The mall talk catalog is our part of the One to One marketing.And those products in the catalogs,the company don’t make those things.They buy those products and distributed to the Unfranchise Owners customers.
I would say,the only risk about Market America UnFranchise Business model,is the REJECTION.But people can deal with.Think about Donald Trump,Bill Gates and other entrepreneurs who had dealt with the rejections.But they could handle the rejections.Look at them now,they are billionare entrepreneurs.They never listened to those fools who used to brainwash them that they can’t make it.But see,imagine that!
Unlike us,we are average people that can only afford minimal cost of franchise business with a proven business model and provide very good products to the consumers.Other business out there are so expensive to open up a small business and requires more money and too much hard work and then, stuck in the business and otherwise,ending up bankruptcy in today,tomorrow,next week,next month,next year or years later.
Also,one more thing.I think I can compare MARKET AMERICA to Health Insurance companies out there that I think they are most rip off and they can only treat the sickness people.But they can treat the wellness revolution!The only thing they know is exercise and eat right!
September 15th, 2007 at 9:31 pm
Your right! A lot of us have made a decent living with MA. Since 1997.
http://www.944.com/articles/6109
September 16th, 2007 at 4:11 pm
No one I’ve ever heard of from MA has ever said to involve your family and friends. Everyone I know in MA has discouraged anyone from talking to friends and family. Your upset and I understand that, but you saw one presentation, maybe it was a bad one I don’t know and it doesn’t matter. You didn’t ever try this business or even do what they described to me as a “trial run” (trying the business without any money out of pocket). From what understand, MA distributors are very picky about who they let into the system, probably because they only need to personally sponsor 2 people, not 50. so it makes sense to me that it’s not right for everyone and like every business, there are going to be business expenses. I know that from personal experience. It’s a business from what I saw, not a wholesale buying club like Quixtar or reliv.
September 17th, 2007 at 7:52 am
Except for the fact that for the large majority of people, 2 people downstream is not enough to meet their monthly quota, hence the need to recruit more and more in order to meet sell enough. Hence, in my opinion, fair or not, the accusations of MLM.
September 18th, 2007 at 2:57 pm
Grant,
You are mistaken and, if you took the time to educate yourself you would know that the business model is not just based on building a downline. It’s based on have a small set (10 – 15) of good customers. Good customers basically order about $45 or more of product from you a month. Then, you teach other people to do the same. They need to get their customers and we help them do that. You see, when you take the time to really learn you will find out this is very, very, different. If you want to compare it to MLM fine. But how many MLM companies REQUIRE you to get customers? Market America does because it is the customer that drives the business, not a giant downline. In fact, if I have 10 good customers and I find 2 people who each have 10 good customers and they each find 2 people who each have 10 customers, that’s actually worth $300/month in commission. Not including the retail profit. It’s called base 10 7 Strong. 7 people (you only found 2) each with 10 customers. Want to make more? You can do it one or 2 ways. Have everyone find more customers or expand your downline. Any way you slice it, it’s pretty simple. IF you take the time to educate yourself and understand it.
September 18th, 2007 at 3:13 pm
First off, I didn’t say it was MLM, just saying that’s where the accusations come from. I never said they are doing anything illegal or anything like that. Just saying people need to read the fine print about the requirements.
Basically, though, if I get 2 (or 10) customers, and each of those get two customers and so on, doesn’t that start to sound like a pyramid? You are right, it is simple: all I need to do is recruit people to sell more product. The thing is, how many of your customers are NOT unfranchise owners themselves?
2
/ \
2 2
/ \ / \
2 2 2 2
Familiar shape?
September 19th, 2007 at 4:41 pm
Sorry to butt in but what’s wrong with MLM? MLM’s completely legit in the US and other parts of the world. What’s illegal is the pyramid scheme which focuses more on building a downline of recruits than selling the company’s products.
September 19th, 2007 at 5:41 pm
Um, aren’t they the same? The problem with pyramid and MLM is if you are on the bottom, you usually are left spending money and not making any.
My only point here is, and I would tell anyone going into business (or buying a business, or stock) this, you have to ask questions and verify the results. Ask to see income taxes, corporate annual reports, etc. Just like you would do when buying stocks, acquiring a company, etc. It is called due diligence.
In my meeting, these two particular owners could not answer basic questions like:
1. How much money did you make last month?
2. How much did you make last year?
3. How much product did you sell last (fill in the blank)?
4. How many people are in your “downline”?
5. How much of your own product did you buy?
If someone who wants you to cast your lot with them and can’t or won’t answer these kinds of questions, while at the same time telling you how great things are, you should be very skeptical. I don’t think this is unreasonable.
Lastly, read the fine print. Make sure you know if there are quotas and what happens to any unpurchased product and what happens if you don’t meet your quotas (if there are any)
September 19th, 2007 at 7:21 pm
I have looked at many companies and have started and been successful at several businesses and investments. Market America is the only residual income I have ever established with extremely minimal investment of time or money. If you want to live scams, disappointments, extreme expenses with little or no return, go get a job or brick and morter business. Pay all those taxes, and hire ungrateful employees who will be disloyal and quit if the going gets a little ruff. Once you have some “real world” being in business experience,then take a real look at MA. The opportunity is great and risk is small. If you can make it in MA, you can’t make it doing ANYTHING else. Any negative comments come from people who have never been in business for themselves and are looking through rose colored glasses when it comes to being in business for real. If you haven’t ever been there, theory is worthless.
September 19th, 2007 at 7:25 pm
P.S. I misspelled a line. “If you CAN’T make it in MA, you can’t make it in ANYTHING else either.” Sorry for the misspelling
September 19th, 2007 at 8:01 pm
The Emperor has no clothes.
My favorite line, as always: “the risk is small”. Yet anyone who saw the comments on this post that have since been deleted because of legal threats you will know that nothing is without risk and that plenty of people would argue otherwise. Going into business for yourself is never a small risk. I don’t care if it is MA or the latest, greatest franchise.
By all means, if you feel you can establish a good downstream, then go for it, just don’t act like it is without risk.
September 19th, 2007 at 10:57 pm
Hi Grant –
You seem to have a good head on your shoulders, and I give you credit for taking the time for this blog. I’m sorry to hear that you were asked to pull stuff down from your site. I’ve had similar circumstances with MA’s Compliance Dept. myself.
I’m curious to know what home-based businesses you might recommend.
You wrote the following:
Basically, though, if I get 2 (or 10) customers, and each of those get two customers and so on, doesn’t that start to sound like a pyramid? You are right, it is simple: all I need to do is recruit people to sell more product. The thing is, how many of your customers are NOT unfranchise owners themselves?
2
/ \
2 2
/ \ / \
2 2 2 2
Familiar shape?
I think it’s a familiar shape because it looks like just about every business in the US, although I’m not sure what the 2s exactly mean. I do know that MA’s structure looks something like this, but without the 2s. There would only be 1 person in each of those spaces. Is there another corporate structure that you think would be worth examining? I’m always looking for something new and improved. (I’m being sincere, not sarcastic, btw).
The other thing that is probably worth mentioning is that I started my MA business about a year and a half ago, and I didn’t really spend much time recruiting until the past 4 weeks with the ‘fast track’ (a story for another day). I pretty much built my business on retailing product from my website — not face to face like many others do. I have 150 customers. None of them are unfranchise owners, and I won’t try to recruit any one of them either. They know our products because they use them, they used them long before they found me on the web, and if they want to start their own business, they don’t need a push from me.
I feel bad that you had a negative experience. If you had met with someone who wasn’t so stupidly secretive, you’d probably have seen the potential with MA. I don’t know why a lot of people in network marketing/MLMs are so secretive, but it’s really unnecessary. They are what they are, and if there’s something to hide, it’s going to come out eventually. I was actually tricked myself today into sitting through a sales pitch for Goji Juice. Why the person couldn’t just tell me ahead of time what he wanted to talk about, I just don’t know. His intention was to convert me from a MA business to a Goji Juice business. Not smart since I sell websites, not juice.
The bottom line with MA is that pretty much every successful business has either a product or service to sell. For some who want to have their own busines, they need help finding a product or service that is 1) saleable and 2) will remain saleable and not negatively impact their business if becomes non-saleable. Because there are so many MA products to choose from, there are many different things people can sell successfully.
Market America gives people a chance to start a business without having to sink tons of money into it. There really is no financial risk. I guess the biggest risk would be losing the time it took to evaluate the business for oneself. No one has to buy anything before it’s already sold, even to start up. They can if they want to, but it’s not a requirement. That’s where our trial run progam comes into play. A new distributor or someone on a trial run can take an order for products, collect the $$ for the retail cost, purchase the products for wholesale $$ from the company or another distributor, and then deliver them. There is no money out of the seller’s pocket. The profit will go toward their $99.95 start up cost and the BV generated can go toward their 200BV initial start-up requirement.
If that new distributor happens to be considering starting in our website business and sells a website, their retail profit will cover their and 20 other people’s start up costs. Retail profit on our website product is normally anywhere from $1500 to $2000, and we don’t even have to close the sales ourselves — MA closes them for us. There are not many businesses that provide such a lofty option — $1500 – $2000 for making an appointment. Do 1 or 2 of those a week, and who cares about an upline or a downline?!
My Market America business is a very part-time business, and I have no problem telling people what I made/make. I worked on and off month to month, and I usually worked about 10 hours a week when I did work. Most new businesses make nothing for the first several years, in fact they lose money with start up costs, overhead, etc. Most new businesses need you to work 60 hours a week or more to keep it going. Also, most new businesses don’t survive the first couple of years — they usually go out of business either year 1 or year 2. Here is what I made/make:
1. How much money did you make last month? Appr. $1200.00
2. How much did you make last year? $2500 in retail profit, $9500 in commissions + website sales. (not a lot, but I hardly worked)
3. How much product did you sell last … I usually average between $1000 and $1200 in retail sales per month (not counting websites). I strive for a 20-25% profit margin whenever I can.
4. How many people are in your “downline”? 6 total. I sponsored 2 last year, 2 this year, and someone in my ‘upline’ (who I don’t know) placed 2 people below me to my ‘downline’. It’s nice to have people downline because you get 100% of their commissions.
5. How much of your own product did you buy? None. I only buy what I need to fill my customer’s orders. 99% of my business other than website sales is done on-line, by the way. My ‘required’ purchase (known as transfer buy), consists of 4 large bottles of OPC-3, some Mochatonix, and some Transitions meals. I sell all of them within 2 weeks or less.
Anyhow, I wish you the best in your quest for the ideal business. There’s something out there for everyone — you just need to find it and try it. Forget those 2 bozos that talked to you about MA. Just because they didn’t or couldn’t succeed, doesn’t me you can’t succeed yourself. If/when you find the right thing fo you, I’d love to hear about it, and I’d love to be your first recruit
September 20th, 2007 at 8:18 am
This is probably the first really intelligent reply I have seen on the subject.
And I think MA would be wise to market themselves more as a side business than a “little to no risk” way of changing your life.
Anyway, I wish you all the best of luck. If you want to do MA, by all means, don’t let me stop you. I am just saying make sure you know what is required of you, JUST AS YOU WOULD IN ANY BUSINESS VENTURE.
I think the big problem is people don’t ask hard questions and demand answers. They get blinded by the promises of riches and “little to no risk”
September 20th, 2007 at 5:26 pm
Hi Grant, I just wanted to say thanks for both posts, and I’m glad I came across this one before the thread was closed.
When I was first approached about Market America, I did a lot of research, but I wasn’t able to find much online as far as discussions or people writing about their specific experiences. I’m an Engineer, so it’s all about the numbers and details for me. I think that, however inadvertantly, you really kicked off a good debate. I hadn’t gotten into Blogging before, but this inspired me to start a blog exactly for this purpose (hopefully I don’t get threated with a law suit next
.
So, I decided I’d give Market America a try, but I’m going to be documenting my experiences as I go and looking to gather those of others as well. Good, bad, and ugly, I want to hear it all. And what can I say? The engineer in me loves a good experiment.
So, if you or anyone else who’s become intested in this debate would like to continue, here’s the address: http://morebv.blogspot.com. Thanks again.
September 20th, 2007 at 8:41 pm
Allyssa,
I would love to participate on your blog! But the link does not work!!
Here are some links I found!
Media Blitz
http://www.944.com/articles/6109
Shopping Made Easy!
REALIZE YOUR DREAMS; REACH YOUR GOALS!
http://www.marketamerica.com/success4utoo
NBC NEWS 10 Work at Home
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5XZfQ3KPMU
September 20th, 2007 at 8:56 pm
Grant,
You sound fairly intelligent. What is your normal JOB?
Is there any Risk going to work and back. Is there any risk that you go to sleep today and not wake up tomorrow? I am not trying to be sarcastic, but make a point that most mature adults realize that there are risk in everything we do. Even walking across the street.
Unfortunately, some of us just do it anyway, because the good outweighs the risk. Compared to starting up a brick and mortar business with much more headaches and so much risk you could lose your shirt and drawers.It makes much more since to start an UnFranchise than starting a brick and mortar business.
Even getting married has it’s risk. Are you married??What about the risk of having children! I think by now, you get the point. Life is not without RISK! But hey, the ones that take no risk are usually the ones complaining about them!
I know your not one to complain.
Probally the only reason someone ask you to take down your site was the same reason you do not understand Risk!
Really! DO YOU HOMEWORK! RUN THE NUMBERS! SHOW ME HOW THIS MARKET AMERICA WON”T WORK! And I will give you my pacheck for four weeks. Remember, you are intelligent! It still involves WORK!!
September 20th, 2007 at 9:25 pm
Yes, I realize life isn’t without risk. Me putting this up is risky, I guess. If you read the comments before (since taken down) you would realize that there are many people who did not do very well because they couldn’t meet their goals, or they ended up buying their own product. I don’t think it was clear to them what they were getting into. I’ve said it every single time, feel free to do MA. I am not trying to stop you. I am just trying to help you think of questions before you get involved based on the presentation I had from two MA associates who I didn’t think were very informative, that’s all. It wasn’t for me, it may be right for you. Like I said, if you sit in on a presentation, don’t be afraid to ask real questions like I outlined above (anyone have others?) and don’t settle for pat answers. Ask to see income tax statements, annual reports, whatever you feel is necessary. I do it every time I buy a stock and pretty much every other risk I have taken in my life, this is no different. It’s called due diligence. If you want to railroad me for offering that advice, then I really have to question your motives.
September 23rd, 2007 at 12:42 am
Grant,
The only reason I’m here is while doing some internet searches and researching for my business, your site popped up (otherwise, I usually do not engage in this).
However, I feel the need to point out the irony here: your repeated responses above after your inaccurate claims are refuted by factual answers from others above is this (per your quoted words):
“My only point here is, and I would tell anyone going into business (or buying a business, or stock) this, you have to ASK QUESTIONS and VERIFY the results. Ask to see income taxes, corporate ANNUAL REPORTS, etc. Just like you would do when buying stocks, acquiring a company, etc. It is called DUE DILIGENCE.”
The irony is the fact that you’re so concerned preaching to all the other people out there on doing their “due diligence” and “verifying the results” on topics, that you yourself are the one actually not following your own advice.
Take a break from this blog tonight, follow your own advice, and read the Market America corporate website where you’ll see that our company VOLUNTARILY publishes an Annual Report by an independent auditing firm (also available in a nice professional full color booklet) which states all income paid out to unfranchise owners and much more. It also states that you must follow the business plan to earn this income (not mentioning a risk-free, easy ride to riches for doing nothing). There is also additional documentation and financials (right in the actual business plan) provided to separate out income between those building MA as a professional business (used as main income, seriously building) and those just choosing to socially build it for a few extra dollars and use the great products/services.
No, it does not mention those that quit because they failed to perform or didn’t research enough to learn that they actually had to build a real business. THEY own their failures, not anyone else or the company plan they didn’t follow. If you ask a failure their thoughts on MA, of course, they’ll pin their inadequacies on others.
(e.g. If you ask the people standing in the welfare line if college worked for them, then of course, they’ll reply with a resounding no. Do you then determine that college doesn’t work based on those selected few? Or do you go to Wall Street, or to the millions of successful CEO’s, stock traders, and small business owners across the country that worked for it…and ask them for the real story on how college worked? That’s where your due diligence is).
I really do feel sorry for you that out of 160,000+ Unfranchise owners out there, in the past you met 1 or 2 people that didn’t fully answer your question and you’re basing that on an entire company’s reputation that’s currently changing an industry.
I agree, it clearly does not seem you are the type of person for MA but at least stay true to your words and get the correct information before you speak. It shows much more credibility when you verify the facts as you said.
Good luck with your stocks Grant.
September 23rd, 2007 at 7:07 am
Dave,
Thanks for the info. When I read the MA site, it clearly says “Little to no risk”. And based on the responses I have gotten from others, I would say it is more than 1 or 2 people who are not giving out answers.
And, OK, I will go read the annual report, just for you. But here’s the difference, I am not even close to thinking of joining MA.
And I agree that the failures are the fault of those who got out because THEY SHOULD NEVER HAVE gotten in the first place. Which is exactly my point. All they heard was “riches” and “no risk” when, if they had done their homework and had people telling them it is going to be hard work, they would have thought twice about it.
September 23rd, 2007 at 7:21 am
I presume you are talking about this financial report, right, Dave? http://mx.unfranchise.com.au/lib/downloads/USA/corporate/AnnualReport.pdf
September 23rd, 2007 at 7:30 am
Unfortunately, it doesn’t say how many Unfranchise owners there are. I have seen estimates that is between 100,000 and 150,000. Could someone correct me?
So, it says in 2006, $79 million was paid out to UnFranchise Owners, (more or less) correct?
So, taking the conservative 100K owners, that is
$79,000,000 / 100,000 = $790 per owner?
Is my math correct, Dave?
Even being really generous, saying there is only 50K owners, that puts the payout at: $1,580 per owner, correct?
So, given the claims by some of the earlier proponents who are making $1200 / month, that means there is even less paid out to the other owners.
Please feel free to correct my math. I may have misread the Annual Report provided in the previous link.
September 23rd, 2007 at 7:30 am
and by the way, those numbers in the last post are PER YEAR.
September 24th, 2007 at 1:02 pm
I’ve read numerous articles debating on wheteher or not Market America is a “scam”, “Pyramid scheme”, or “Multi-Level Marketing” system. I’ve also read the MA Annual Report and all the product literature. I can only report that a family member of mine has been working as a MA Unfranchise Owner for a little over a year. Not one to do things half-baked, he attends conferences, meetings, and seminars galore. Stacks of publictions, research, and even tests accompany him wherever he goes. He gives health seminars and sells people “solutions” to their health problems (he has over 30 people in his “binomial” business group). But when I ask him how much he actually earns….he admits that after all of these costs (he even cuts down on expenses by staying at other MA members houses or sharing hotel rooms with multiple people), he doesn’t really make a significant amount of money (factoring all the other costs, I know he loses money- he insists that it is an investment). Instead, he has maxed his credit cards out, works tons of off-beat hours, and insists that he will be a millionaire in a few years. Well, for his sake, I hope so. I tell him that if he isn’t that it is a reflection of the company, not his efforts. I am, however, saddened that MA seems to appeal to and profit from the hopes of people who can hardly afford to “hang in there’ and work for MA, without any basic guarantees (how about some health insurance guys!), for at least 2-3 years. Sadly, my brother has no retirement savings, no health insurance, and if he doesn’t “succeed” at MA…what then? As an “un-Franchise Owner” he has no legal recourse either. In his former life, he held a steady job with benefits…not glamorous,and it certainly couldn’t compete with MA’s sales pitch. It saddens me to see him so excited and being given so many accolades for what a great job he is doing…but not actually earning any money. And he’s not lazy. Last night he showed me this year’s annual MA report (again). Well, right there in the fine print at the bottom of the page it stated clearly that more than 65% of MA people (even excluding 1st year people like my brother) do NOT make more than 30k per year and only 14% earn between 40-65k…and less than 2-4% make six figures per year (the other percentages were for other income brackets like 10k/year and less than 3k/year). Not very equally distributed if you ask me. My brother, hey, he’s an adult and can make his own choices. But as a family member it’s hard to sit by and watch my brothet get taken advantage of. I hope I can eat these words in 1-3 years when he’s a millionaire, I really do. I would never dissaude someone for taking a chance, following their dream, and working hard to achieve their goals.MA is certainly not for “anyone” and it is a decision. I don’t feel sorry for people who fail after making clear, informed business decisons..it’s a risk. I do, however, feel sorry for people who are vulnerable (financially, emotionally, and even educationally)and are taken advantage of.
September 24th, 2007 at 4:17 pm
Btw, I need to amend my calculations earlier, if you count commission, plus retail profit, you get:
$79M + $84M = $163M
Then, $163M / 100,000 = $1,630 per year. Half the owners, double the payment up to $3,260 per owner per year. Now, that isn’t chump change by any means, but it isn’t exactly the path to riches either.
Here’s another curious line item on the Annual Report:
Yachts = $22,117,388
Would those be the Yachts available to all Unfranchise owners for doing offshore transactions or entertaining guests?
Notice, by the way, that there clearly was a purchase of a Yacht (or multiple yachts) in 2005, because the category was only $3.6M in 2004.
September 27th, 2007 at 9:56 am
MA was introduced to me as a business opportunity by my MD after first encouraging me to purchase the OPC3 product (as well as some others). I’m sure she’s doing quite well in selling health/nutrition supplements since she’s an MD and has a captive audience. Most people are going to take their doctors advice!
When going over the business presentation, although I think she sincerely believes it is achievable, the main selling point was making a 6 figure income in 2 years. It did sound too good to be true. Do I think it’s a big investment? No. Is it risky? Naturally. The point is, I’m glad that I found your site. I was actually looking to find out the dollar value of a “BV” (i.e., how much would I really be required to buy myself and sell to others each month). If someone could tell me that, I would appreciate it. I’m doubtful that I can get 10-15 steady customers a month. I don’t want to pressure my family and friends. I haven’t read their marketing program yet, but I’ve tried and failed at internet marketing before; so, I don’t have any false hope of gaining customers via the web. You’ve already shed a lot of light on MA for me. If someone would just answer my basic question (monthly sales required in dollars), I’d be very appreciate. And….why is it that the details of the Market America opportunity are not on the web portals?
After my meeting last night with my MD, I told her that I wanted to check it out further and would get back to her. Unfortunately, though, my searches didn’t come up with much useful information (except for this site).
September 27th, 2007 at 3:05 pm
Very interesting, especially the numbers laid out by Stephanie and Grant. I would also like to know the answers to Janet’s questions. On the legal side, the lawsuits identified at http://www.sec.gov/litigation/litreleases/lr16131a.htm and http://www.globalcomputing.com/MarketAmerica.htm make me a little edgy. Granted, all corporations are targets for lawsuits, but the first one appears shady at best and the second one vindictive. If the top people aren’t on the up and up I have hard time buying into a program (Although how different are they from corporate america?)
On the surface it appears the Market America results could be summed up as “get in early and you make money, get in late all bets are off”. Hats off to those who can make a go at it or are using it for supplemental income. I wish you the best. I would, however, be interested in knowing how many of the 14 to 16% that earn over 40k are the ones who got in early or first introduced it into their area vs the late comers. Lastly, I have to wonder just how overpriced the products are if everyone in the upline gets commission on them and what exactly that commission percentage is.
September 27th, 2007 at 5:25 pm
Yeah, I don’t know anything about the lawsuits, but you are right, all corporations are subject to lawsuits (and individuals, for that matter), so that shouldn’t reflect badly on MA.
Likewise, with MA, I don’t know about getting in early or not. I think the pro MA posts here are from the people who are doing well (i.e. in the 2-10%) and you don’t really hear much from those who aren’t doing as well (or are doing OK.) I guess I would like to hear from some of those. When did you get in, how long have you been at it, etc?
I should also add some more questions I would recommend people ask of their recruiters:
1. How much did you spend on MA product?
2. How much PROFIT did you make? i.e. Revenue – Expenses, etc.
3. How many hours did you work to make that profit?
September 29th, 2007 at 11:59 pm
Hey Grant,
Another slow, relaxing night so I thought I’d check in for some entertainment. I do have to say I’m impressed you glanced at the MA Annual Report so I will give you a “kudo” for at least attempting to stick to your words. The 2006 report is even better when it gets on the website.
As for your above calculations – sorry, not accurate. You can’t compare apples to oranges – As I said, all people are not building the same way and some are not building at all, just using the producst as customers basically so you can’t count them as actively following the plan and claim it’s not working. If your stock broker didn’t show up for work for a month and your investment income hit the floor, would you blame the company’s plan for not producing? Your calculation assumes all people are full time building MA and as I said, some are just using the products and not choosing to actively expand and build the business for a larger income as others are. So you can’t come up with an average income by dividing total commissions paid out by number of unfranchise owners. You said you reviewed annual reports for your stock companies so I’m sure you don’t apply that logic to those companies — and you can’t here either.
Additionally, you need to understand that these incomes that are mentioned are RESIDUAL and compounding which means they have a leveraged value that far exceeds what most people associate as their linear income through paychecks. (Even those making $1,000/month in MA RESIDUAL income from part time hours, this is NOT the same face value as a one time paycheck for $1,000 at a job – there, you have to go back to work and create more work / more hours to get another check next month if possible – but if you’ve followed the plan and built properly, the MA $1,000 income will repeat next month, and the next, and so forth, even if you put less hours in.
The yacht comment, yes we as general Unfranchise owners have access to the yacht for high level trainings. What’s wrong with a company having a yacht? I hope you also question your big investment companies’ execs in this same way..they’re spending all your account management fees you continue to pay them enjoying their big mansions, yachts, and vacations in the carribean? We even meet with the CEO of the company and train face to face at their home and on the yacht. Have you had dinner with any of your investment company CEO’s yet? Additionally, all MA company money is factored back and invested into our businesses through the system and solidifying the company further for life-long income for all of us – you won’t understand this so don’t try, it will only waste both our time.
Also understand that there are thousands of extremely intelligent people that are Unfranchise owners and no one is being taken for a ride, especially when the checks are coming in and the proof is in the payout for those that follow the plan.
As for closure on your “little risk” concern, it is a business and therefore the risk is in trusting yourself and your action. It is little risk since the bottom line is a very small startup requirement compared to any traditional business or store costing $500k – over $1mil+ (that’s risk), MA startup is mostly of products you’re using already so you’ve lost nothing but gained the ability to create a significant income of 6 figures OR just an average income if you choose at $50k RESIDUAL per year – the individuals choice. By the way, this is a 2-3 year plan or even if customized to 5-6 year plan if you choose, it depends on what the person wants and how fast they want it. They need to follow the plan.
And finally, it’s not a get in early deal. This concept is explained specifically in the first business overview of the plan. Due to capping of those that started earlier, they are not gaining all the money and taking it from the new people, but sharing the credit with the new people to ensure their success. The excess cashflow that was not paid to those earlier partners(that they were capped on) was shared with those new people they’ve been training to provide equitable distribution to those who deserve it from following the plan. Again, just disproving the incorrect comments above but not worthy of time here or even possible to explain in this forum.
Actually, those that start this business now are able to build income much faster than the earlier owners in some ways due to our growing visbility and credibility in the media, more business building tools, advances in the company and technology, etc.
In closing, above, you mysteriously pulled out a reply to my answers that you were still not going to join MA although I never indicated my desire to convince you. Please don’t misunderstand my answers to your “claims” as me trying to get you to join MA with me as you incorrectly referenced. MA is a professional business where serious business owners are interviewing people for partnership over a period of time, not some quick sign up for just anyone off the street. Respectfully, I’m not interested even if you begged me to offer you a partnership which we know will not happen regardless so we’re all safe.
Ok, time to close discussion. I can’t promise another visit here since fragmented discussions without all parties having an educated view of the entire picture of this company is just fruitless banter.
However, Grant, I wish you luck in the future and hope this chat website and your stocks are providing you an endless stream of residual income as many of our MA Unfranchise owners enjoy
October 1st, 2007 at 8:14 am
I’m doing OK. I know you wanted to hear from someone doing OK. I earn a few hundred dollars a month in commission, about $300-$600. I also make a few hundred in retail, depending on if I sold websites and health and nutrition (or just h&n) in that particular month, retail ranges from $200-2000. When it comes to spending on product…. I only spend money on product that is already sold, or that I am using myself. I spend about $75 a month on health and nutrition products for my son, husband, dog and myself. I also purchase laundry detergent, household cleaners, sprays for odor and diapers, and makeup. But when I purchase these items it also helps to create more bv and build my business. I prefer to buy quality products from myself and earn commission than to buy any-old-product off the shelf at Wal-Mart and help Wal-Mart to make money.
As for the person asking about BV, I do not believe there is an exact calculation, it varies, usually it is about 70%, for instance a $50 product has 45 bv, but again it varies by product.
Another person asked why the plan details are not available online. They are in fact available on the web portals, although some distributors may have opted not to include the plan unless they authorize it–it is their business and that is their choice. But it is available on most, including mine, and I know for a fact that many “comparable” companies do not have plans available online, or do with no explanation which leaves you confused. If you go to a Market America portal and click on “about ma” follow instructions, click a flag, and you have the plan available step by step. In the top left corner there is a circle with TP (talking points) this will outline details on each slide, if you were seeing the plan in person a distributor would discuss and expand on these points. I hope this helps.
When it comes to profit I haven’t been investing in a lot of expenses lately, meetings, trainings, paperwork, etc. But I always use money I’ve earned in MA to purchase these things, and still end up with money in my pocket. I wish I had a clearer calculation for you, but at this time I do not.
I work on Market America maybe 3 hours a week, I should do more, and I KNOW if I did I would make more. I utilize my Market America business from my Yoga Spa so when I build I am building two businesses. This is a full time job, but only part of it can be committed to MA. In my experience owning a Spa is much more risky, time consuming, has more expenses, more overhead, more commitment for less profit than my Market America business. But I am a business owner and I take the good with the bad, I will continue to build both.
My parents are also Market America distributors and they earn, in commission about $600-1200 a month, I’m not sure about retail. The upline I work directly with earns $18,000 a month and her upline, Elizabeth Weber, earns $1.5 million a year, residual and she doesn’t need to keep building to keep earning, she can sit back and relax.
I have examined several other “comparable” companies and read the fine print and haven’t seen anything that was even close to Market America’s opportunity. I know that with Market America you can make more than your upline, so it isn’t a get in first type of scheme.
The products also have the chance to be life changing, I know that my son is 2 and has had a runny nose once, and it happened to be in a two-week period we were out of our OPC-3. Other than that he has never been sick, and he has played with other kids who were sick, been to the Spa and been around several people. I do not get sick. Check this woman out: http://www.wetmtv.com/mediacenter/local.aspx?videoId=2598@video.wetmtv.com,2559@video.wetmtv.com,2730@video.wetmtv.com,2692@video.wetmtv.com,2623@video.wetmtv.com&navCatId=18&2=2
Thank you for the chance to read and write about what I see as one of the best opportunities available.
October 2nd, 2007 at 8:50 am
I would say this puts you in the doing very well for MA camp, not the doing OK camp, based on the averages I calculated based on the MA annual report. At any rate, congrats on your success.
And if Elizabeth is earning 1.5 a year, that just furthers my conclusion that there are a whole ton of unfranchise owners who are making _WAY_ below the average of $1600 a year.
October 2nd, 2007 at 8:57 am
Dave, you can slice it however you want and say it is “apples and oranges”, but the fact is, MA paid out $163M in commissions and retail profit to an estimated (your number) 160,000+ owners. You can make excuses for them by saying they are not “building in the same way” (how can that be, I thought they had to follow the plan to succeed?) but the fact remains, for whatever reason, that is how much is paid out, on average. And, my further guess is that 10-20% of the owners are making 80% of that money. That’s just human nature.
And yes, I understand about the Yacht. Your are just hitting my point exactly! MA is a corporation just like any other corporation, except the “employees” (franchise owners) who do all the work don’t get benefits like insurance, etc. They just get a promise of riches, which in reality doesn’t work for the large majority of them (otherwise the numbers would be WAY higher)
October 2nd, 2007 at 9:03 am
And Dave, if it is such a great opportunity, why are, in your words, people “just using the producst as customers basically so you can’t count them as actively following the plan and claim it’s not working”
I mean, come on, this is a little to no risk path to riches, isn’t it? I would have to be stupid to sign up and then not actually follow the plan right? That’s like saying someone laid a pile of gold at your feet and said, “Here, take this, it’s all yours” and you saying, “no thanks, but can I have the pallet that you delivered it on?”
In other words, these people are just buying their own product? Why in the world would they do that? Doesn’t add up Dave.
October 2nd, 2007 at 4:00 pm
Why didn’t dave tell us what the minimum monthly goal is (in dollars)?
October 3rd, 2007 at 1:30 am
Can someone please contact me. I would like to join Market America. Anyone on here that cant see that this is a legitimate business opportunity is about 15 years behind the curve. Affiliate marketing, buzz marketing, one to one marketing is the viable way (and most profitable) of doing business in the 21st century. You cant tell me that ebay, walmart, target, etc., are all part of some evil “pryamid scheme”. It is like everything else, if you work it, you will make money. I have been involved with affiliate marketing for some time and have made some substantial money. If you understand business, leveraging, compounding, you would be doing what I am and wanting to join MA. The negative people on here, with half truths, not even UNDERSTANDING what a pyramid scheme is, make me wonder, WHY? Why would you try and ruin a reputation of a company, or someone (like myself) who is just engaging in free enterprise so I can provide for my family. What are you trying to gain?
October 3rd, 2007 at 8:11 am
I’m not trying to ruin MA. It is a free country and you are free to do as you wish. I just want to make sure people have their eyes open before going in. It’s not for everyone. Some people do very well at it (my guess is it is less than 10%), some do OK at it and some don’t do well. If you look at the averages, I would say most don’t do well. All I am asking people do, is ask questions of the people they contact and do their best to verify it. If you are satisfied with the answers you get, then by all means join. If you aren’t satisfied, then don’t join. Don’t, however, join, just because someone says it’s no risk or promises you will be a millionaire in 2-3 years, because the fact is that very few MA unfranchise owners are, otherwise the commission and retail profit paid out by MA would be in the billions, and the annual report will confirm that.
October 3rd, 2007 at 3:36 pm
yep, replying to the previous email. I agree that this business is not for everyone, cause not everyone is willing to
follow the system, or willing to know more about it. They prejudge what they know about MA, and thought they already knew it all. If you really compare those who success and those who failed in this business, is very simple, those who failed by doing their own ways or do little or do nothing, those who success are strictly following the system, and the fact is: it’s for average person, everyone CAN do it, but NOT everyone is willing to do it. I’m making money, and also on the way to help lots of people achieve financial freedom. Like Google, yahoo, Ebay, MA will become the next big ICON on the internet. It’s expanding to Hong Kong this Sept. let time proves this business works !
October 3rd, 2007 at 9:15 pm
Rick (of the Oct 3rd message),
How can one contact you?
October 3rd, 2007 at 10:32 pm
Such a cop-out. All you ever have to do is say “they didn’t follow the system” and you have your way out. Does the system tell you what you have to do each and every day, 365 days a year? Or are somethings left for you to figure out? I bet even the ones who really make money don’t follow the system to a tee, so stop using this cop-out.
And I don’t think I am prejudging MA. I think the numbers speak for themselves. Based on the averages, there must be a whole lot of owners out there not following the system (which is so easy to follow!), otherwise the revenue and commissions paid out would be a whole lot higher than $163 million per year for those 100,000-160,000 owners. But wait, why wouldn’t these people be following the business plan? There is little to no risk and it is practically foolproof.
It does bring up another good question to ask yourself when considering MA or other franchises: how good are you at sticking to plans, paying attention to detail, etc? If you feel you truly can execute the “system”, then it is probably a good fit.
October 4th, 2007 at 2:13 pm
yes, the system does tell you what you need to do step by step, day by day, in order to success, and there’s actually
a basic 5 diagnosis test to help you monitor, adjust, and control your daily, monthly plan of actions.
There is daily check list you need follow, and everyone
can do it, is just the question of doing it or not, doing
it consistently or not. I haven’t seen one person that strictly follow the daily check list for 2-3 year, and not making the residual income. If you know such person, let me know.
October 4th, 2007 at 2:26 pm
I was recently approached to become a “partner” in this “business opportunity.” The FIRST thing that I said was “if it’s not AMWAY.” The pitch was exactly the same as the Amway pitch I received in 1979. Assured that it was not, the pitch went further to include comments such as “geared toward baby boomers” and “vitamins that we are using ourselves.” Firstly, why am I (or anyone else for that matter) going to take health advice, albeit vitamins, from just anyone out there wanting to sell a product? Doesn’t make good common sense, does it? Secondly, why the “mystery” that is so common with these MLM companies? And I will say company rather that scheme, which is what it really is. I challenge anyone to think back on the eighties and talk with the person who introduced them to Amway. Now go back and see how they are doing. My person never made a go of it. Enough of Amway – I’m just making the comparison – which in my view is very comparable. As for checking out MA’s website for valuable (and truthful) information on the company and relying on what you find there for making a decision, I suggest going to any government website and asking you to believe what all you read there. Or better yet, remember ENRON? I doubt that their website had anything negative to say about the company, and what exactly did their finacial’s say at the time? Hmmm? C’mon folks – you can’t really be that gullible? I will say this – the one at home based business that I have seen succeed is Party Lite. At one time I had 6 friends involved in trying to make money at it. Of the six, only one is still involved and has actually made money, but she puts in MANY hours of work per week, besides holding down a “regular” job. I guess I agree with Grant – do what you want, but for pete’s sake, take the blinders off and do a little (or a lot) of homework and realize that you will not be making a boatload of money by working a few hours a week. Use common sense – if it were really that easy, why wouldn’t everyone be doing it? If you could really buy a house by simply only paying off the back taxes, why wouldn’t everyone? If buying and selling stocks by running a program that tells you by red and green indicators when to buy and sell, gosh, why wouldn’t everyone?
October 5th, 2007 at 8:17 pm
MA is a business that provides you a great tool to make money. If you do not know how to use this tool, if you are too lazy to use this tool, if you are looking for bad sides only, you will get what you want – nothing! I love the opportunity the company gives. The problem is people try to create their own wheel when it’s created for them already. The plan is simple, the requirements are not high, the products are wonderful, and money are very good if you do not complicate your life with too many “but”s, digging soil trying to get dirt. Honey attracts flies – not just bees. Everybody wants to have money, BUT not everybody does minimal requirements to make this money. I’ve been in MA for 2 years, and I make good money. And I am amazed – reasonable investments of money (absolutely not a lot) and time (6-10 hours a week) – and I’ve stopped working full time for salary since January 2007. I am at home, with my kids, happy and healthy, can enjoy my hobbies, do not care about crowds in a stinky and noisy subways, late evenings, tiredness, ignorant boss. I travel, have vacations, go when I want and where I want. Good luck to those who only complains! Probably you are useless in any other businesses – just do not want to admit it. Then let’s blame the company, right?
October 5th, 2007 at 8:32 pm
Congrats on your success Lena. I love your attitude and you must be very good at following the plan. My only question is, if the plan is so easy, why are all of these people in MA (remember, the average yearly take home based on the commissions and profits paid (excluding expenses) is approximately $1600 based on rough (and conservative numbers) presented above) not following the plan? Why would they do that? And I’m not talking just a few of them (otherwise the averages would be WAY higher) who aren’t doing it. Are these people not positive? I gotta tell you, the guy I met with was as positive as they come. Boy, if they could bottle that and sell it, then you would have something. And yet, he admits he has been at it for over 5 years and made at most $1000 per month, working 10-15 hours per week. The math, for most people, just doesn’t match the marketing. I will say it again, I agree with the positive people here (pro-MA), if you think and believe that you can do it, then godspeed to you, especially if you have asked the questions that need to be asked. I wonder, of the successful people who have joined, how much homework did you do before joining? What things did you look into first? What did you feel you had in your mind/background that would make you successful? Are you the type that won’t take no for an answer (and I mean that in a good way)? Are you especially outgoing or friendly? Do you have a lot of contacts? Do you come across as being honest? Perhaps a list of attributes of the people who are successful will allow others to check them off to see if they honestly feel they have those attributes. I don’t know, just thinking out loud here. My bet is, the attributes of the successful ones are the same attributes of any successful business or salesperson and that all they really did was find the system that they felt comfortable with. It may be MA for you, it may be eBay or Amazon or starting your own company or climbing the corporate ladder.
October 5th, 2007 at 10:00 pm
Cynthia, you asked if it was so easy, why wouldnt everyone be doing it? SO I am asking you, why dont you do it? There you will have your answer. I have a friend who buys houses (he was on one of those infomercials) He has a positive cash flow of $5,000 a month. He was telling me how easy it was for him to do this..I asked him the same question, why doesnt everyone do it than? He told me “I dont know, I just told you how to do it, why arent you doing it?” Somebody just showed you how to become financialy independent through Market America and your CHOOSING to throw it away. Why? Because someone on a Blog told you not to? Or are you afraid of success? Or just plain scared? The thing with success cynthia is that you have to breakaway from the pack. This can be very uncomfortable at times because of our conditining: birth, school, work, taxes, death. When you choose to step out of the box it makes others uncomfortable, thats why they attack, make fun, disparage you, they want you to fall back in line. They want you to stay in your little cubicle and be quiet.They want you to ask yourself is this “good for the company?” not is this good for me? A human being who wants to be free. Market America is like any other business, it is not a guarantee of success, it is an opportunity for success. Who ever approached you about MA actually thought enough of you to take time out and share themselves (putting themselves out there) so you can better yourself. Thats the American spirit. At the very least why dont you support them. Shop through there web portal, what will it hurt? You probably shop all there stores anyway. Dont forget, there are people out there (like myself) who would love to have someone share the opportunity with me. I cant even get someone to contact me. So obviously something in the great design of life CHOSE you..twice! So you never, ever, have the option of complaining about money again, or looking at people who are successful, going, WOW! How did they do it! You know.
Rick
October 6th, 2007 at 12:19 am
Hey Grant. Just wanted to add some insite to this lovely debate you are having (I love this stuff).
I had a buddy who was approached by someone representing Market America. My buddy was asked to come to a meeting about a “very little investment” opportunity! Now, I haven’t read the material given to him yet, but it sounded like a company that some friends and I participated in as a school experiment a few years ago.
What “magical” little company I am refering to, is none other than: World Financial Group! Now, I know that MA doesn’t market the same products that WFG/WMA/etc.(always changing their name to avoid the next federal lawsuit) but, the same business model of recruiting your way to the top seems to fit the molds of both MA & WFG.
So, what I would like to do is investigate this company the same way I did with WFG and report about it’s activities on your blog. I would welcome all successful entrepreneurs’ to prove that MA is not another fly by pyramid scheme by showing some hardcore figures and facts from their own experiences, not some figures from the company website. I would also like to hear about the bad outcomes with MA as well.
Oh yeah, BTW, is it not true that the founder of Market America (James H. Ridinger) came from Amway?? Just curious, because the founder of World Financial Group (Hubert Humphrey) also came from this disgraced “company”. The latter also faces multiple federal lawsuits…just food for thought.
October 6th, 2007 at 7:20 am
I believe the founder of MA is from Amway, but that isn’t necessarily a bad thing. People get second chances.
As for the bad examples, there were plenty on the old post
. The problem I have with the bad examples at this point is that most of them turn into personal attacks on MA and the executives since the people are pretty mad, which puts me at risk in that manner. I understand why they are mad, but I don’t want to be at risk in that manner (I am not a risk adverse person, I just prefer not to be sued as a general rule). So, I guess I would ask, if you have had a good or bad experience and want to share your personal story, please feel free. Keep it clean, no personal attacks (on MA execs or on me). Just tell us how you got into it, how long you were in, how much you spent, how much you earned, what went right and what went wrong, and, if you got out, why you got out.
Of course, I reserve the right to not approve your comment if I don’t feel it is appropriate according to the guidelines above.
I think the thing that worries me most about all this discussion is I am not telling anyone not to join. I’m just saying ask questions of the representative and seek answers despite the rah, rah stuff and for the most part the pro-MA people come on here and say “you’re just negative, you don’t get it” and provide more rah-rah stuff. Furthermore, I am pretty sure that the only ones who do comment are the ones who have something to protect, namely the ones making a good deal of money off it.
October 6th, 2007 at 9:14 am
Perhaps the issue is it ain’t all it’s cracked up to be, otherwise, given 160,000 or so owners, the MA revenue paid out should be in the billions, not millions.
Geez, if even 20,000 (1/8 of the total # of owners, a measly 12%) of the owners were making $5,000 per month, this would add up to MA having paid out:
$5000 X 12 = $60,000 per year
$60,000 per person X 20,000 owners = $1,200,000,000 per year.
That’s $1.2 billion dollars PAID OUT. That’s a far cry from the $163 million paid out in 2005.
As always, please feel free to correct my math.
October 6th, 2007 at 3:21 pm
Grant, I think is is unfair to base your numbers on the amount of reps. Some people join these companies so they can have access to the products at a cheaper cost. In fact, 90% of shaklee distributors in canada are just members who just buy products for themselves (no selling or sponsoring). Amway also makes great products that are in high demand, that people just want to buy. So it isnt accurate to work your numbers based on 160,000. For Mr. youngblood, if you want accurate info go to the DSB (direct seling assoc.) or the BBB (better bus. Bur.) to say that Amway is a disgraced company when they are one of the largest privatley held co. in the world doing 6.2 billion in sales (and very respected) is grossley inacurate. Grant, you are right if you let this conversation get out of control, you CAN be sued for Libel. Be careful.
Rick
October 6th, 2007 at 8:38 pm
Ah, very interesting, Rick. So, people aren’t joining to make money, they just want a discount on the product? Fine, so be it. If it is just another buying club (ala Sam’s, BJs or Costco), then sell it as that and not as a realistic opportunity to make money. By the way, are you sure they aren’t buying their own product so that they can meet their quotas? And, please, please, please tell me why it is such a phenomenal opportunity (as has been proclaimed by so many above) that the large majority of people joining do so solely so they can get a discount on the products?
Rick, what numbers shall I use? I thought 20,000 was pretty darn conservative given Dave’s estimate of 160,000 total owners. How’s 10,000? Or 5,000? Are there at least 5,000 active owners out there?
If a mere 10,000 MA owners were making $5,000 per month, the total paid out would be $600 million, right? Half that to a paltry 5,000 owners and the payout would still be $300 million, right? ($60,000 per year X 5,000 owners = $300M)
Yet, it’s not. It is $163 million according to the annual report in 2005. So, if you take that $163M and divide it into our 5,000 (guess) active owners (i.e. those doing this to make a living and not just to get a discount) and you get a whopping average of $32,600 per person. Now, again, $32K per year is nothing to sneeze at (pre-tax, mind you) but it is hardly the path to riches.
At any rate, I tire of this debate. We’ll just have to agree to disagree.
Also, Rick, I don’t think I have said anything libelous. I am just using the published numbers from the annual report and the estimates of the number of owners from the pro-MA camp. I am not saying don’t join. I am not saying it is a scam or even MLM. I just feel some strange obligation to help people ask questions (why is everyone so afraid of questions?) before joining or not joining. If you get satisfactory answers to those questions and you feel you are the kind of person that can do well at it and have the great energy and attitude of some of the people above, join now and do not hesitate. May your life be full of blessings and rewards.
October 6th, 2007 at 11:50 pm
I totally agree with you about asking questions. You should do this about religion, politics, and any business. Yes, some people join just to buy products for themselves. Most these companies in direct sells offer this option including MA (which I am not affiliated with btw). lIKE i SAID 90% OF SHAKLEE members in Canada join for there own consumption (that is from there own literature) I know this because my wife and I joined so we could by some of the cleaning products after OPRAH WINFREY did a special on them on earth day this last april. We liked the environmentally friendly products and the packaging and bought some. I dont intend to sell or try and recruit anyone into shaklee. So if someone tries to calculate bonuses based on my involvement, they will be wrong. Maybe your a “half glass” type of guy, me, just show me ONE person, just ONE, who makes money in MA and if it worked for them, it could work for me (not anyone)just me. Just to let you know, I dont think you are negative, just more cautious than others, I also dont think you are being libelous. I was just saying be careful on who you let say stuff on here, it could come back to haunt you. I know a lot of companies in the direct sales, like shaklee, amway, etc., take there integrity very seriuosly, and do sue people with blogs of this type. If you keep it very general and open ended, like we are doing, you will be okay, but like you said earlier, once people make it personal…it is naive to think that this Blog isnt being monitored, it is.
Rick
October 8th, 2007 at 12:32 am
I did some research and discovered that over 80 people in Market America make over $1,000,000 per year. Over 3,000 people make over $100,000 per year. I also discovered that the Amway corporation has produced more millionaires than any other industry in the last fifty years INCLUDING real estate. They also own the largest vitamin, health nutrition company in the world (over 2 Billion in sales)10 x larger than any other vitamin company. They produce the #2 energy drink in north america (red bull being #1). I also discovered that Warren Buffet (one of the richest men in the world) Bought and owns a company called PAMPERED CHEF (a MLM)because he thought it was a great company and investment. I also learned that SIR RICHARD BRANSON (worth 6.8 BILLION himself) who owns VIRGIN atlantic, started his own MLM called VIRGIN cosmetics, and now they are the largest COSMETIC firm in the U.K. Also, Amazon.com the largest online retailer (before MA takes over) decided early on to use word of mouth and affiliate marketing (where affiliates refer the company for a percentage)as the primary way to advance there company, finding in two test markets that t.v. ads were inaffective for the amount of money. Also, Donald Trump and Robert Kiosaki both endorse network marketing as a viable way to make money in thier book WHY WE WANT YOU TO BE RICH. Donald Trump being the global spokesperson for the largest Direct seller of telecommunications company. Another interesting fact is that nearly 75% (or close) of Americans have purchased products from Direct selling companies. These companies dont grow in vacuums, someone is making it happen.
Rick
October 8th, 2007 at 4:01 pm
I have no problem with network marketing. I am just saying look into it.
As for your claims of 3,000 making $100 K plus (not to mention the 80 making $1M plus), I find that hard to believe given the numbers in the annual report. 3,000 X 100,000 equals $300M paid out.
At any rate, I am closing off comments for this, as it is just a circular argument of pro’s and con’s and is not worth my time. Like I said at the top, do the math, verify claims and then make your own decision based on what you feel is right for you.
May 30th, 2008 at 4:01 pm
[...] doesn’t jive w/ what I see in analytics. For example, I know I am in the top 10 for “Market America” and “Carowinds” on Google, amongst others and that people are clicking through [...]
August 28th, 2008 at 7:50 am
I’m going to open this back up for 10-15 days to see if there are any new perspectives to be offered.
From a biz standpoint, it seems (http://mx.unfranchise.com.au/lib/downloads/USA/corporate/AnnualReport.pdf) that MA had another banner year (the company itself, that is).
The math from above is pretty much unchanged, with maybe a small uptick for distributors, but most likely not since there are undoubtedly more people involved. That, of course, is the big thing missing from the Annual Report, they don’t tell you how many people they paid commission to. I’ve seen estimates as high as 150,000.
So, in 2006, the report says that roughly $195M was paid out to owners. Sweet! That’s a lot of money. Now, divide that by the number of owners. Sad. It’s only $1300/year (based on 150K owners) on average (I’ll make that much this year on this blog and I guarantee you I work a lot less on it). Cut the owners to 75K and you’re at $2600/year. Still, nothing to write home about.
And remember, the 80/20 rule likely applies here as well. That is, 20% of the owners are making 80% of the profits. In fact, there are testimonials above stating just that. Several claim to make $1M (unverified) plus, which just means the average joe is making even less per year.
September 2nd, 2008 at 9:02 am
So, got an interesting email from an ex-MA employee the other day, and this person made a really interesting point. Namely, if MA is such a great opportunity for John Doe, why would anyone actually work at MA? Seriously, why do they have employees? I get that they have executives who are probably paid in the millions, but why would they have lower paid people? Shouldn’t they all just be unfranchise owners? I suppose one could argue it isn’t for everyone, but still, if you believe enough in the company to join it as an employee, why don’t you have an unfranchise?
September 5th, 2008 at 6:01 am
I donot get it 5000 points = you spending $2500.
Yes I know you break it up from the people you get in.
Willl here is a point that is only IF they purchase. Lets see whne was the last time a business ran of a IF well never.
Outside of this I have check recheck gone in and sign-up even to find out well what you can earn from this and I got nothing no plan just simple min points redeemable is 5000 and you earn 2 point in a dollar. I say so what!!!! I like to know what you get for those points and well answer is ????????????????They didnot say.
The next thing on the hit is where is the unscribe section.
September 15th, 2008 at 12:10 pm
Great string, Grant. I went to luncheon this past Friday, mostly who are bible thumping Christians, and after 5 minutes of meeting a man there, he told me about MA, and wanting me to visit his website. I was in Amway in the early 80’s so I am very skeptical of these type of introductions, because I did a lot of them! Anyway, he gave me the MA product brochure. I’m a teacher by trade and use Wikipedia a lot, so i was surprised not to find an entry for MA! So that’s how I found these posts. Ultimately I feel sorry and sad for this man and his family and the majority of MA participants because I know the long hours, pain, and lost money by all my associates when I was in Amway, and I see the parallel for the majority of MA. Just my 2 cents.
September 17th, 2008 at 3:08 pm
As I read all these comments all i could hear was sour grapes, I was a former business owner with over sixty employees all the headaches and loss of product from my employees ( stealing ) it makes me wander how many of the people writeing these comments have ever owned their own business, and most that mentioned MA is a rip off company or
you cant make any money, those people are usually not successful in Market America, is because they do nothing but expect to get rich, IT JUST DOES NOT HAPPEN THAT WAY! Anything in life worth having, must be worked for, I have been with MA over six years and have become very successful.
BUT I WORKED FOR IT!
September 17th, 2008 at 3:15 pm
In respones to Grants comment about why MA has employees, and why arent they unfranchise owners, again another one who did not get their facts before shooting off their mouth,
people in the corporate office ARE unfranchise owners,,,,
September 18th, 2008 at 7:32 am
Terry, the person stating this to me, in a private email, was an MA employee. Could they have an ax to grind, sure, but they seemed sincere. I do find it interesting to think about. MA doesn’t actually pay out that much in avg. salary according to their books (spread across 500 employees), so it’s not like the in-the-trenches employees are getting rich like the executives are (it is a corporation just like any other, remember). FWIW, the executives and a select few MA owners seem to be the only ones who are.
As for sour grapes, I don’t have sour grapes, I never joined. I agree with you, people can’t just expect to get rich, it doesn’t just happen that way, which is why MA should stop telling people that it has little to no risk, as they do here: http://www.marketamerica.com/corporate/index.cfm?action=services.wpCorpBiz. It then goes on to say:
“From their first day in the business, Distributors are equipped with a detailed plan of action, Custom Web Portal, and valuable tools, reports, and services through the UnFranchise Management System. Market America provides the products and services, creates the marketing materials, and handles the shipping and distribution.”
Yet, based on the numbers, it is very clear that the large majority of owners are incapable of following said “detailed plan of action” and are clearly failing or at best staying even, either that or they are just buying their own stuff for less, as also has been alluded to by a few purported Unfranchise owners, as Rick says on October 6, 2007. Again, nothing wrong with that, if it’s your expectations going in, but it ain’t the path to riches, either.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again (http://grantingersoll.com/2007/08/25/making-money-on-market-america/): I bet I make as much money on MA as a good number of MA owners who are so busy networking, solely off the ads on this site, and I guarantee you I put in at most 2 hours per month (and even that is generous) dealing with comments.
September 29th, 2008 at 4:13 pm
Everyones talking about how networking is a bad thing. open your eyes and realize that all companies and organizations operate on network marketing. All companies are built like a pyrmaid. the difference is you determine your future and not someone else. A traditional business pays you minium wages to build and sell products to make the top guy rich. If your during the work, why don’t you benefit? If you use the products you make why can’t you get you get paid for it as well.
Stop knocking network marketing and support those out their trying to make a difference in their life.
September 29th, 2008 at 6:37 pm
Um, Big G, do the math. Not that many MA owners are getting the benefit.
Also, ever heard of commissions? I suppose if you are talking selling trinkets at Best Buy or Apple, then, sure, you get min. wage and someone else gets rich, but, you can get a job doing something else. Find what you are passionate about, and then figure out a way to make money at it.
I have nothing against networking, success in biz is all about who you know, no doubt. What I have a problem with are companies that claim there is “little to know risk” involved and that you’d have to be stupid not to get rich, when plenty of good people simply don’t.
October 12th, 2008 at 12:06 pm
Hello Grant,
I do not understand why you are wasting your time opening up this blog.It is good that you are informing people about something however it would be very smart of yours, if you could check out the bussiness for yourself and evaluate it. Instead, of wasting your time providing baised information about MA which would only benefit people who are vague about this opportunity become more vague, how about letting them evaluate for themselves. You might not be willing to do it,however, there are millions out there who are seriously looking for the right opportunity, and Market America could be the right one. I am a new Unfranchise owner, and I am confident that this business will work for me if I am willing to work because I have seen it, understood it, and I will make this happen.
October 12th, 2008 at 6:49 pm
Um, “ma distributor”, did you actually bother to read what I wrote? I never said don’t do MA. Can you tell me my bias? Where is it? Is it in doing the math on the Annual Report?
I just said do the math and check the facts. I’m sure MA will be great for you, no doubt. You’ll probably double the average and maybe make $5K a year. Seriously, download the MA annual report and do the math on what MA pays out per distributor, on average, and then come back to me and tell me I’m being vague. You want vagueness, how about posting what you actually make? Of course, that’s stupid of me to even ask, because there is no way to verify the claims. That’s why I don’t believe you or anyone else claiming to get rich of off MA (although, there are some, I’m sure. For certain, the corporate MA execs are, no doubt about that.) I just look at the self-published MA annual report, run some very conservative numbers and then it ain’t too hard to figure out from there that most people don’t make all that much.
October 14th, 2008 at 10:22 am
My wife and I joined MA for 4 months since May 08. We activated within 3 months and earned our first $300 check. We were excited about this biz, especially after the convention. We bought tickets for Region convention as well as the next year World Convention. Unfortuately, a month ago, we found out more negative about ma. People always say that it is not mlm and don’t need to recruit people for earning money. The truth is you still have to recruit more and more people below you in order to build up strong base for you to secure your commission. Our upline started doing the 90 days fast track and recruited 40 people in one day. Why they doing that becuase to secure the base and more commission for them and higher level. I read ton of articles and how can we get the residual income when the whole market is saturated? People said they can earn the commission from selling the products. It is non-sense since the products are expensive. There is no way you can earn hugh profit from selling, but you paid more than you received.
For example, if your downline on both legs do not active in buying or recruiting, in order for you to receive commission, you need 1200 BV on both legs. Total 2400BV equal $3,600. You have to spend $3,600 to get the $300 check, why??? Beside the 2400bv, you have to make minimum Transfer buying for 100BV if u get the first check already. It is about $200 when check out. What do you get for the month — you paid at least $3,500.00.
Right now, the team encouraged to earn the IBV check. It is crazy again. You only get 1% of every dollar spend for the IBV. For both legs, you need to spend $240,000.00 to get $300.00 check. If I give you 10 downlines on each leg, each downline needs to spend $12,000 in order for you to get $300 check. Most distributors are normal people and they have no money, so they join ma for residual or extra income. Where do they have $12,000 to spend?
I am a Christian and I don’t think putting people down below me and I can move up higher for more money is ethical to me. For that reason, my wife and I are opt out from doing this biz and hope that make more sense for those existing ma distributor. You can earn more money if you treat it as biz without looking moral and ethic issues. Just like JR, Eiz Webber have so many downline people, 180,000. Think about if earch 180,000 spend just little hundred dollars, how much do they earn? I did not count the profit they get from the price of the product they sold to us and they paid to manufacturer. Good luck.
October 17th, 2008 at 10:42 pm
Anyone know what the average life cycle is of an “opportunity”? Amway, Excel, others like this? How many last 15, 20,40 years? Excel went away, what about those representatives income. If MA were sold, or went public what happens? Maybe it is worth a shot only to try to get lucky and have someone in your downline that makes it for you, otherwise it is work and requires effort, like most other jobs except Congress and Bank CEOs.
October 19th, 2008 at 11:28 pm
Grant, I want to primarily thank you for this blog..and express how excited I am to have read to the bottom only to find that it is still open. I had thought I was getting some quick information and that was it (what a relief). I have been propositioned for MA, and being a personal trainer, it does make sense to push their product through my business. My main concern would be the fact that I know of better supplements that I take that cost less…and I think that although their products are good, I would not be able to rightfully (for my own profit) tell my clients, or anyone for that matter to buy a product that is not the best (most widely used does not mean the best..its a fact). I have absolutely no problem with the business theory, I built my own business with no problem (yes it is successful, this would be supplemental income). The person who propositioned me is one of my best friends, and we have gone into business before and been successful. My question is to all of the pro MAers out there. Not one of you that were trying to prove Grant wrong (which is not at all what this debate is about, he has never once belittled MA) have given the monthly sales requirements. The only one who did, was someone who agreed with Grant. I am open to opportunity, but my main point would be, as a very educated trainer/nutritionist why should I push products that I know are inferior based one my own personal experience ( I have used MA products throwing off my own cycle for 2 weeks for the sake of a fair comparison for my friend). I do plan on doing MA because the bottom line is it does make sense because commissions come from everywhere, and I know that i can create the client base I need to succeed. I think that in the future of these posts, anyone with a gripe about how valid MA is should be required to post earnings and their created circle that makes them that money (i.e. how many people, monthly B.V., people in downline and their B.V. because lets face it, you can pull those reports up at any time if you are as diligent as the business model says you should be). Thank you for your time..and again Grant, I think this is a very viable topic and I am extremely excited to have this topic still active.
October 21st, 2008 at 6:26 am
Any MA prospect needs to consider 2 things before signing up: 1) Am I able to sign up at least 4 people within a short period of time that will never ever quit their memberships (whether or not they are able to recruit anybody as their own downline) and will keep up with the monthly purchase requirement to maintain their membership & 2) Am I able to find enough non-MA customers, before the end of the first month after signing up, to buy the products that I am required to buy to maintain my membership and level. They need to make sure that they would be able to solve these two questions before signing up so that they would not have the burden/pressure from the purchase requirement and the expiration of the BV accumulated by their downlines.
October 22nd, 2008 at 1:06 pm
I am a former Market America distributor and decided to leave the business when I realized that most of the people around me were running the business like a pyramid scheme.
Market America has some pretty strict requirements when it comes to how many sales you need to make each quarter. If you do not make the required amount of sales you will lose all of the business volume that you accrued during the quarter, and your up-line will lose any business volume that they have earned from you. I have found in my experience that my up-line and up-lines of people around me encouraged people to lie about their sales in order to meet their requirements which means that many distributors were buying hundreds of dollars worth of product each quarter and encouraged to create receipts saying they had sold the product even if they had not done so. As I saw this going on around me I became very morally conflicted with the business and decided that it was not for me.
October 25th, 2008 at 6:47 pm
Great blog, Grant! I’ve had some past MLM experience, and came to the same conclusions you have reached,”Do it if you want, but don’t go in blind!”. I believe the phrase “Caveat emptor” applies.
I hope you continue to make mucho dinero from this simple site, and I’ve added some clicks of my own to help out!
November 8th, 2008 at 12:55 pm
I think it’s funny how you admit that you have never been a part of MA; however, you have a pretty solid opinion about it. Why would anyone put their two cents in when they have no clue what they are talking about? Second, why would anyone listen to someone who admits he was never part of a business opportunity, yet has something negative to say about it? That doesn’t make any sense. Get a life.
November 8th, 2008 at 5:44 pm
Real simple, Stacey. I sat through the pitch and felt like I was being lied to. The people couldn’t answer basic questions like “How much money did you make last month/year/week?” or “How much of your own product did you buy versus how much did you sell?” Furthermore, I’ve read and posted well over 200 comments (the old post and this new post) from both sides of the coin, and I think I’ve done it in a pretty fair way. Obviously, I lean against MA, but I tell everyone to make their own decisions. Just make sure they know what you are getting into.
So, no, I haven’t been a part of MA officially, but that doesn’t mean I don’t have a clue what I’m talking about. And, yes, I do have a life. In fact, MA provides me a nice little chunk of spending money thank you very much, and I have never signed a contract with them or bought a single item of theirs in order to meet my quota.
November 10th, 2008 at 2:08 pm
second to Grant. Distributors can have a recognition during presentaions about how much money they have made over 4 week pay cycle, but you don’t know if they are consistent on the same paycheck every cycle. If one who did not have a strong downline, he/she won’t get the check consistently. For the last two months, I stopped all my activities in ma, except the required transfer buying($190). That was the only expense I had over these two months. Before that, I had to pay for the conference, briefing, buying products for selling>actually, hard to sell to make profit. I do have couple preferred customers buying one or two products from me. For the required quarterly form that we need to submit to proof that our purchased products are for selling, not stocking. I found out that since I don’t have any sale for the quarter, how do I file the required form(the sales must be over $200). From this, this is another required expenses we have to make per quarter. That actually forces me to buy products which I don’t need. For these two months, my wife and I are getting back life when stopped all the biz related to ma. Inside MA, no one has life since they have to attend all these meetings days and nights. My uplines are finishing the evening briefing around 11pm and they are still up until 3am for doing something for the team. Where is the life? Think before signing anything.
November 12th, 2008 at 3:36 pm
Hi Grant,
Thanks for keeping this open. I found your blog while doing some research on MA. I was at a business meeting today and after the meeting was over I was approached by a woman that had listened to my presentation. She told me how much she liked my presentation and thought that I had a wonderful service. She then said that she had a friend with a business that might work well in conjunction with mine. Another woman in the room heard her say that and asked her what the other business was (these two were obviously friends). Woman #1 immediately clammed up and said something like “oh, it’s nothing really, I don’t know much about it…blah, blah blah”. She seemed embarrassed that her friend had heard here bring it up at all.
So I walked away, put on my coat and left the room. Right on my heals was this women. She again told me she thought her friend’s business would be perfect for me and that it would compliment my services very well. I asked her what it was and she said only that it was a marketing firm and really didn’t know a ton about it since she had really just got involved herself. She told me she had taken one of my business cards in the meeting and would call me later that afternoon to give me more details. Then she said she would probably have her friend call and we would do a three-way (and not the good kind).
I do a lot of training and make a ton of presentations so I get hit by MLM and pyramid people ALL THE TIME. So of course the bells went off almost immediately when this chick started talking. All the symptoms were there…hit fast, compliment the target, offer few details, paint the blue sky, set up a followup. She told me she didn’t have a card of her own or know her friend’s company name or phone number but she would get that to me. She then handed me a Market America pen and asked if I had heard of it. I hadn’t, so she said “oh, perfect. Well we’ll get you some information this afternoon.”
I hadn’t been back in my office for even and hour when this woman walked in the door with her “friend”. Much to their dismay, they had allowed me enough time to do some quick research on MA so I knew what was coming. After failing to answer my first 4 questions honestly and openly I showed them the door.
Now I have nothing bad to say about MA. For all I know it may be an incredible company and an incredible opportunity for those who want some side income or to be at least somewhat self employed. What I hate, however, is any company that relies on misleading sales and marketing campaigns. The approach that these two women took was certainly misleading.
If the product or company you are promoting is great then why can’t you be honest and upfront about it? Why are so many of the actual requirements hidden until the hook is set? Why is it so hard to find the fine print about becoming an unfranchisor? If you can’t tell people all the requirements upfront then the business probably isn’t as good as you disciples make it sound.
It pisses me off when people waste my time or lie to me. The MA pitches I was given today did both. I’m not looking for a side job, I’m not interested in investing even a small amount of money in anything and I’m certainly not even the least bit interested in selling products or finding downstream disciples. These two geniuses wouldn’t even admit that selling products and getting people would be required. From what I’ve been able to gather, however, those are the primary things you have to do. Again, if those are the primary requirements then fine…I have no problem with that. But don’t lie to me and tell me they aren’t required.
Deception, fine print, lies, twists, grey areas…call it what you want but that is what MLMs are founded on and, as far as I can tell, also what marketamerica relies on.
I’m sure some people will make a lot. I’m sure a lot of people will make some. I’m also sure that this system will require the vast majority of MA’ers to spend a bunch of time and money to make next to nothing. The deceitful, or at least misleading, recruitment procedures will certainly keep bringing in lazy folks who think they are going to make a bunch of easy money.
Work hard…you might make money. True in life, probably true at MA. But also true: lie or mislead people and you can make easy money. Lots of easy money. I think this is the truth behind MA.
MA’s website, other information I have found on the internet, and the rebuttal posts in this blog have done nothing but reinforce my beliefs…this is just another Amway, Excel, Juice Plus, etc, etc, etc.
I’m now going to go back to making money the old fashioned way – I’m going to work honestly (I think I’ll lock the door first – those women may try to come back to convert me).
Thanks Grant – keep up the fight!
November 20th, 2008 at 6:08 pm
Hi Grant,
I recently went to a meeting for MA. Based on the presentation and my calculation of how much you need to pay for 3 years … as your risk factor is give or take at least $6,000 for 3 years.
Of course the 1 year you have to shell out at least $1000 which 90% is on products for self to use. $99.95 to join for a year. $95 a month on products divided into two groups one is exclusive products by MA (50 BV pts = $75) and the other one is partners whatever is listed (target, bloomingdales, macy’s etc) (10 IBV pts = $20) and $30 a month for your own web portal and management website etc
I forgot what was the % on commission and on bonus. I can come back with the numbers next time. What I have here is the weekly paycheck at most $3,600 which is divided by BV points and IBV points = 5,000 points. So what percentage of commission are you getting per product … I am not sure of that.
What I am trying to understand is that you need $200 BV to activate does that mean every month if you do not reach $200 BV then you do not get the commission or bonus from your downline? so if that is the case then it will actually up the risk money put in if you actually purchasing something you don’t need to meet the sales goal of your team etc. which is pretty much silly!
But I heard people doing well … which is customer based with MA. Selling the isotonix opc 3. She is a massage therapist and have her own brick and mortar and it is just a product on the shelf for her to sell to her customers.
So I still think traditional way is the way to go to when you are selling something you believe in. If you like something don’t you say it to your friends? I do. I recommend restaurants, movies, products I love to use … why do people have to sell people join that is what I do not understand if their products are great make them be your preferred customers can’t you still make money that way? on commission?
Best,
Yvonne
November 22nd, 2008 at 2:52 am
Grant, I applaud you for your manner of sharing your concern! It’s interesting to me how you have not attacked ma or anyone involved, but continue to have to say the same thing over and over again: “I tell everyone to make their own decisions. Just make sure you know what you are getting into.” ”Do it if you want, but don’t go in blind!” “I’m not trying to ruin MA. It is a free country and you are free to do as you wish. I just want to make sure people have their eyes open before going in.”
I’m impressed w/ your checking out the annual report, calculations, and results!
I’ve been involved in ma since 2003 and still retail some products….why..? Because, I have yet to find a company that has a better nutritional line and I am very impressed w/ the amount of R&D they invest before it’s available to the consumer.
We earn $1500.00 in commissions per year and came to the same conclusions you have: “this is not for everyone”…and the claims are a bit deceiving. I agree with you, “people can’t just expect to get rich, it doesn’t just happen that way, which is why MA should stop telling people that it has little to no risk.”
We were told all we have to do was find 2 people and help your 2 people find 2 people and sell some products and earn $109,000 in 2-3 years. There is no question that ma is a legit company and has an opportunity for anyone that wants to sort through a lot of people to find 2 GOOD people to do what you do. Just know that it is a lot of work just like anything else. They say they can do whatever they want whenever they want to. It just so happens that they want to spend a lot of time interviewing people to qualify and then take to meetings, trainings, seminars, and conventions! And the biggest thing for me in the stage of our lives is all of these interviews and training events conflict w/ our kids events such as sports, etc. …because they are scheduled for when people are normally off work: evenings and Saturdays.
And I don’t believe ma is for the average person …Like you said, Grant…you have to break away from the pack. It is “sales” regardless of what they say …. I’m just telling it like it is. I just wish they all would too!
ma is a great opportunity for those who want to do what it takes. A lot of people enjoy it and have a lot of fun doing all that it takes to make it work.
November 24th, 2008 at 4:57 pm
You may think I’m wasting my time and money joining Market America, but I decided to do it after careful research. I asked my upline questions such as how much he makes, what’s the difference between this and a pyramid scheme and such. He showed me his commission schedule for the past 6 years. Every week he receives a check from Market America for $3600. He also showed me the actual, physical checks for the past 2 years. In addition, with traditional pyramid schemes, the upline earns from the downline only. But with Market America, the downline can earn from the upline. There is 100% equality for all members, whether upline or downline. Also, my upline is helping me look for people to build my team. I have not heard of Amway/Quixtar doing that for their members. So I’m going to give Market America a chance.
November 25th, 2008 at 10:08 am
Good luck, John.
November 25th, 2008 at 9:56 pm
Alright, now. I have been approached by someone who said they can get me into the MA group for a mere $600 and the requirement of paying $20 a month and the requirement of buying 150 basis points of product every quarter. Can anyone give me any standings behind this? Also, he told me that I wouldn’t have to be active, meaning hunt down (2) people in my down stream, but just let the points build. This way when I finally pull (2) people in I would be able to redeem this point accumulated equivalent worth of money and be on my way to success. Wow, I just think I should do this. But, why would I put $840 into a program and rely on this person to “place” people under me to make “me” points and assist me in making it big if all I do is wait for “them” to build my world for me. Oh, and on this same line he said if my points made it up to 5,000 (not $’s) they would delete those and start me at zero again. Meanwhile I’m paying$20 a month and buying product I have no idea of it’s worth. I was told that if I have (2) people under me paying their full share too, I would be making $300 a month. Of course, only as long long as my downline kept coughing up and producing their monthly $’s. Does this ring a bell for anyone? Please advise/verify the accuracy.
Nomad
November 26th, 2008 at 6:44 am
Dear Nomad,
A couple of wise, old sayings come to mind in reading your post:
1.) If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.
2.) There’s no such thing as a free lunch, no matter how much some try to convince you otherwise.
I suggest you go back to your contact and ask them some real hard questions about the money they make, including asking them to see their tax returns for as long as they have been in MA. Watch their body language carefully and listen to their responses with a healthy skepticism. Then, decide whether they are telling the truth or not. Maybe they are, I don’t know, but don’t just take their word for it. Demand documented proof, ask for references and ask those people the same hard questions. If they can’t produce it, then walk away. In other words, do your homework. Think about it. Why would anyone just give you “free” money?
November 26th, 2008 at 9:01 am
Yeah, knock knock. This ain’t for me. I just talked to another guy got into MA a few months back, through a different source, and he did not pay the initial start-up fee of over $600, plus the monthly $$. I say to this guy, “Sorry to see you got suckered into spending the extra when not necessary and, if you were just charging ME that, screw you for trying to screw me!
Grant, I appreciate your due diligance. That is what we should all see as social integrity, so others may not get screwed.
Semper Fi
November 29th, 2008 at 9:22 am
Hey Grant,
Great thread. I have a family member who does MA. I am very concerned for them as I have looked around. A couple facts which concern me:
1. There are mulptiple sites on the web who claim that they are being threatened with lawsuits or asked to remove content by lawyers representing Market America. That in itself worried me. I have seem negative postings across Edmumds.com for every vehicle made, some extremely pointed towards the company yet, there are no threats reported there. To be clear, every company has the right to defend their brand, as MA is with these legal actions, but I get nervous when I see a company do so with such apparent enthusiasm.
2. The “Low Risk” claim. Great risk carries great payback. It is a general rule in life. Any business owner is very aware of that. Low risk will carry a lower payback. Anyone who tells me that with LOW risk, I can earn great payback, just makes me personally nervous.
3. The language used by some of the pro-MA posters makes me nervous. I work in the technology field. When I talk to prospective clients, I deliberately “dumb” down my pitch, so talk in non-technical terms because it is important to me that my clients fully understand when I am proposing. Many of the pro-MA posts like to carry their specific network jargon along, for me, it has the appearance of dishonesty, and makes me nervous.
4. One thought I have on these companies. They make a claim that a number of folks, according to some of the numbers on this site, a majority of the unfranchise owners, are not doing it right. If I ran McD’s corp, and sell out franchise licenses to McD’s stores, if I have a store that is not performing, that is not properly representing or performing for my brand, I yank their license. I would wonder why, MA would not do the same. If you have folks who are obviously not following the plan, not performing, and in the long run diluting and distorting your brand, why would you not drop them? Just accepting anyone, not holding them to a certain performance level, hurts your claims of income potential, and dillutes your brand as a smaller and smaller percentage of your member make less than good incomes. I pose this as an honest question, I would seriously like to know the answer to.
Also, to reiterate something mentioned over and over here. It is obvious some people are making good money with this company. Some are not. This is a free country and you need to chose for yourselves whether or not to do business with MA or any other company. Just please do the research and ask the tough questions.
December 17th, 2008 at 4:57 pm
Hi folks,
great posts back and forth. If you are required to buy inventory, attend motivational conferences and recruit then it sounds like a pyramid scheme to me. I’ve been approached by one “franchisee” and know of another not from MA. The marketing pitches are the same: freedom, minimal work, high potential cash flow, independence, motivational speeches about providing a good life for your family etc… no doubt they are passionate about the business and god bless them. I just don’t want anyone to get hurt or scammed.
The pitch that makes me wonder the most is “minimal” amount of time. But this is if you bust a move and recruit like crazy to build the base. Each un-franchisee want to be on top of THEIR own pyramid. Grant’s 2 x 2 pyramid makes sense. The whole thing is one gynormoeus pyramid. with each person owning their own little pyramid. This is how you generate income. The more people below you the more you potentially could make. If you are motivate and can sell, then the pyramid gets big and over time will support your cash flow and BV units. This requires a lot of time and patience.
When they say it does not take a lot, its only after you have a large enough base, until then its a full time job of recruiting. You’ll spend every waking minute (in malls, parties, PTA, supermarkets) recruiting (BTW I was recruited in a Walmart after striking a casual conversation with someone, also don’t ever say you are sick of working or thinking about starting a business..its a trigger for the hard sell). Soon you’ll see friends, relatives, acquaintances as potential lefties-righties. And if you are not careful can hurt those relationships beyond repair.
Just a word of advice. GL to all who seek their dreams..whatever that maybe.
December 18th, 2008 at 2:27 pm
I jumped into MA without much research, shame on me. The sugared down supplements are just phoney…who actually manufactures them? And the rest of their products? Nothing special!
Their business model is wacky and makes no sense…offering very little return on investment to most. I am sure they will be out of business soon enough.
December 27th, 2008 at 4:49 pm
I’ve been reading a few of the posts, only because we were approached (actually a cold call) from a MA rep today who got our name and phone number. They wanted to meet with us to tell us how much better MA is than what we’re doing, that’s it’s all about the money (I find that interesting that she would say that as for some it’s not always “all about the money”).
Anyway, I read Grant’s post about being careful about WHICH company you get involved with and I couldn’t agree more. We (my husband and I) have both dipped our hands in a few MLM/CDMs and now realize it is extremely important to know what company you’re getting involved with.
Initially, we wanted to become customers ONLY of a particular wellness company. This company happens to be in the Better Business Bureau Hall of Fame, the INC 500 Hall of Fame and has been around since 1985. They manufacture their own products and offer them to consumers who want better, safer products in their home that also saves them time and money (all of which everyone of us could use!).
Anyway, we wanted better, safer products for our family and our environment. But we ended up loving the products so much that we wanted to tell others about them. That’s when we decided to build a business earning residual income…and it cost us NOTHING EXTRA to do so. And the people we share the product line with become customers with the company directly…not with us.
So, no extra investment to build residual income. In fact, this month (Dec. 2008) they are offering an annual customer membership for $1.00 for one year of wholesale buying (you can be a retail customer too, but most people want to save money).
Then all that it costs you beyond becoming a customer (for only $1.00 this month, otherwise it’s normally only $29.00) to build residual income is to open your mouth and tell others about this company and their awesome products. This company chooses this method of advertising (referral marketing) over the expensive traditional ways (commercials, print ads, etc.) so that they can save their customers money on the products, give money back to customers/families (free products and residual income) and put in high quality ingredients into their products. They also spend a lot of money in science and research on their products – in fact several of their products are patented.
In the wellness presentations we show our business report, copies of our paychecks, average potential earnings, etc…anything people need or wants to know if they want to participate in this company beyond being just a happy customer (which, at the end of the day, that’s what it’s all about…people loving their products – and with a 95% customer retention rate that says a lot).
This company offers a 100% money back guarantee (empty bottle). It’s a month-to-month account, you can cancel your account at any time for any reason. So, this is one of the few home-based companies out there that offers residual income and there is absolutely no risk at all. That’s probably why they’ve earned their way into the BBB Hall of Fame.
So, if any of you out there are looking for a better way…excellent products, excellent savings, excellent business opportunity then feel free to contact us. Our goal is to truly help others…whether it’s to go green, save green or earn green!
December 30th, 2008 at 9:52 am
If MA is so popular and proven to work, why is MA still not featured in wikipedia search? MA claims to be a multi-million dollar company but why is it so difficult for it to feature in simple wikipedia search? i am very skeptical about it. ANyone , please explain…
January 11th, 2009 at 11:23 pm
This message is in regards to the post submitted by “Unfranchise Owner.” Why would anyone want to by a product or submit any type of financial information to you? You have absolutely no idea what proper grammar or spell check is. No wonder you have fallen so hard for your precious MA!!! Please DON’T try to “duplicate” yourself! We are in a world of hard times and fast players. Unfortunatly, most of the people who spend there money and time with MA, or any other MLM type scheme, will end up with lots if widgets and no money! God Bless and be smart with your hard earned dollars!!!!!
January 22nd, 2009 at 2:49 pm
Grant,
I am intrigued by your blog. I have been introduced to MA and have now been doing research for almost a year. The first organization that tried to recruit me did turn me off and in my opinion were in fact trying to “sugarcoat” the entire scenario. I have now been introduced to a second completely segregated organization from my first encounter. These individuals were very upfront and accommodating to all my bottom line questions and concerns. I found this surprising seeing as how I was very well researched and knew more than most of the newer recruits already involved in the business. I made it very clear I would have no interest in joining until I was put in front of someone that had been in the business for a significant amount of time and could honestly say that this is their primary source of income. I was introduced to an owner that was up-front and honest and he did indeed put all the facts that I needed right out there on the table.
As with anything in life I would highly recommend not taking part in any venture MA or otherwise with someone you have any reservations about. I personally walked away from MA because I would not be fast-talked or duped into something that may not work for me. It is true that like so many other situations in life you will run into scammers and con-artists, I dont care if you are buying a business plan from MA or a product or service from your local retailer not all people are honest or have your best interest in mind.
All that being said I was curious about MA and my initial experience was brought forth from a friend of the family that i can say is no dummy and has done very well in several ventures. The problem was that he is not the most ethical gentleman and again in my opinion the organization he joined seemed to fit him well. My brief encounter did pique my interest and set me out on a great deal of research and personally generated feedback from anyone that could elaborate on their encounters with MA.
Hopefully some of this information is helpful. I will start by saying that like any other opportunity you must work and you hopefully you will get back what you put in. I say hopefully because there are no guarantees in life, I could be the hardest worker in town but just because I buy a truck and place ads and talk to people and ultimately start a business that does not mean that I won’t be bankrupt in a year or two. Your success is dependent on your ability to prove that there is a need for your service/product and unwavering belief that you are the person to provide it. This comes from education.experience and diligent hard-work.So in my opinion money being made by others is helpful and motivational but at the end of the day has no direct correlation to you personally, so dont get caught up in all the “how much do you make” nonsense. The harder I work and the more educated and articulate I make myself will determine how effectively I can convey the positive aspects of my business to others. This is the number one selling point of MA to me, I have the OPPORTUNITY to outperform anyone(above or below me) and make a residual income based on that. In other words if I am far more advanced in my knowledge of why this is an opportunity that could fit a great number of people and my dialogue reflects that I will outperform a vast majority of MA distributors. I suppose some of this could be considered opinion but I believe that I can succeed in anything I set my mind to and will always carry that belief.
From my understanding(correct me if I am wrong) it takes $129 one time initial fee to set up your business and web-portal.You also will need 200 BV points to start. BV points are based on sales of exclusive MA products and would probably translate to $300 or so. You will also be encouraged to purchase your literature and business cards etc. and you will incur additional costs for those materials. After your initial startup costs you will have minimums of 50 BV points and 10 IBV points(explained further in next paragraph)each month. The quota is actually per quarter but breaking it down by month is easier to digest. There is a hidden cost of $11 a month for some sort of a networking tool that allows distributors to upload info and make it available company wide.You DO NEED two people under you to start earning commission checks which is the residual income that is their BIG selling point. So in my estimation $100 a month($1200 a year)if you sell absolutely zero product throughout the entire year will keep you active.
Now the big secret, Why do I want to be a part of the business and stay active in it? I am not a vitamin or cosmetic salesman nor do I now or ever strive to be. Well for me it is not the MA products it is the partner stores. MA has partnered with and is still actively partnering with many,many stores and websites that we all patronize perhaps even daily. Commission points are also earned on these purchases(which are made through your retailers website) and are classified as IBV points. As a matter of fact I had a hard time elaborating on my stance to people involved in MA, I basically said I was not at all interested in their products didn’t intend on selling them. Trust me in MA circles I am way,way out in left field. Now at the moment retailers offer anywhere from 1-100% commission points on purchases but these numbers have climbed consistently and some are significantly higher than when I started my research 11 months ago. Ultimately I said I am comfortable with the risk of investing $1200 a year to have a business that partners me with Best Buy, Sony, Target, and pays me commission on all purchases I direct through THEIR website. Now remember if you did your research you would know that not only my efforts will equal my commission points but the efforts of MY WHOLE SALES ORGANIZATION. And yes people above me also will build my commission points because you may place all your points in the last person you personally sponsored,thus running uphill giving everyone in that DIRECT line those commission points. If you investigate the business plan you will see how the profit does not get eaten up by this long line of commission points because it is a huge amount of revenue that must be generated to accrue these points. Remember now this is money we all spend on a consistent basis so with the advancement of the internet within ten years how much business will be E-commerce?
January 23rd, 2009 at 1:17 am
I went to a MA meeting today after a constant bugging of a friend. Just want to let everybody know that I was required to buy 1400.00 dollars products to join MA. And after that every though I don’t have to be actuve (meaning not try to get people as my downside), I need to buy at 120 dollars products every month.
I feel insane for those people. Why could I spend 1400.00 dollars to buy those products and keep buy every month? Are those products really far better than GNC or any others?
January 23rd, 2009 at 1:23 am
And one big reason they said I should join MA is for the tax refund. Because MA is your business. So you can put anything related as work expense.
Andbody knows about this?
I really doubt about it.
January 25th, 2009 at 9:13 am
Hi Grace,
MA is a biz just like others (not that MA people will say that, their “different”), so I would think you can deduct appropriate expenses. I, however, am not an accountant or a lawyer, so I would recommend you consult with one of them to get a full picture of what is appropriate. Do keep in mind that taking deductions is not the reason one goes into business. It is a small benefit, but not a reason. Unless of course you think spending a dollar to save thirty cents is wise.
January 27th, 2009 at 12:51 pm
Grace,
does MA require a contract when you sign up. Just wondering how long you have to stay in. What if you can’t sell but still have to buy. not good.
January 29th, 2009 at 8:04 pm
I too have been evaluating MLM companies as I want to find a second income, backup plan, and to develop my own business out of the home. I like the products that MA offers, we have used several and like them. They have a well developed website/online store. The one thing that I have a problem with is their websites all have a large amount of content flashing the lifestyle, and the bling, of the husband and wife team that acts as the company President and Vice-President. With so much awareness today on corporate ethics, image, brand association, and acceptance in the community and marketplace, the fact that this company’s top execs openly flaunt their riches, lifestyle, and rub it in everyone’s face, shows me their focus is not on the product they offer. It’s not a good image to project to prospects evaluating business opportunities.
February 5th, 2009 at 10:01 am
I’ve been through one presentation and realized the key to Market America’s growth. This is how MA continues to easily gain profit: Each distributor is an actual customer of Market America. Each distributor is REQUIRED to purchase product from Market America. As the distributor sells more, they actually then need to buy more (their required BV minimum goes up until it caps). Customers are then icing on the cake. (They compound the money made of course.)
However, keep this in mind, distributors are additionally REQUIRED to have 2 people underneath them and sell close to $2,000 worth of product before they make any commission. Therefore, just from a distributor perspective, this provides an exponential growth factor for Market America selling more products which easily correlates into increased profit each year with no risk on their end. (Remember, MA makes the products at 1/10 of the price and make good profit just by selling it to the distributor.) This is what fuels their ever present profit increase since 1992.
The only thing I warn people about is that:
1.) a saturation point is coming at some point. It’ll be harder and harder to grow legs.
2.) with the state of the US economy, who has $60/month to spend on vitamins or secondary supplements? To propose to people to change their buying habits is one thing, but all MA products are more expensive than anything else on the market.
3.) people are becoming more skeptical about trying new products, forget buying. I wonder if the target markets for these products are uneducated and elderly people…
February 6th, 2009 at 1:43 am
Grant,
All you are doing here is showing people that you have too much time on your hands to bitch about things you wish you had. Nobody is asking you to own an Unfranchise with Market America. Market America IS the fairest chance for an AVERAGE person to make a better life. The fact is, most Unfranchise Owners aren’t working the business at all or they weren’t right for the business in the first place(absolutely nothing wrong with that). In my organization, we don’t bring ANYONE in the business until they have seen the plan at least 2 to 3 times(because we just want to steal their money). Look how most people work at their everyday jobs. They slack like crazy and usually have no motivation at all(because corporate America is so great). I bet that has nothing to do with the fact that no matter how hard they work they will always have to come right back to the same place to make the same income day after day. You can earn substantial residual income from working the plan and some good hard work. The biggest plus with Market America is RESIDUAL income. No matter what your OPINION is, who can argue with residual income? I’m sure your job pays you residual income though, right? We all work in a pyramid scheme(owner,manager,employee). Why are people so content working their ass off to make someone elses dream come true. I have no problem with people that work for an employer or that own their own traditional business but I do have a problem with people that bad mouth a different way of life. People are scared of Market America because it sounds way too powerful to be true or possible. We were all taught that if you go to school, go to college and work hard we would be taken care of by our company. That is just not as true as it used to be. If you live your life scared of something because everyone else told you to be, then you will never know for yourself. If you never make any changes in your life, then everything stays the same. I know someday people will see Market America for what it truly is. Market America used to be called “the world’s best kept secret”. It’s not anymore because you can’t keep secret something great very long. Good luck to all of you that are going to work for someone else the rest of your life and plan on being financially secure. You are a fool if you buy into that crap! Good luck all of you.
February 6th, 2009 at 2:05 am
I don’t understand some of you people. HOW DO YOU FIGURE THAT CORPORATE AMERICA IS A BETTER CHANCE THAN MARKET AMERICA? At least in Market America you can make more than your upline(owner/boss in corporate America). Have you ever heard of an employee that makes more than his corporate master, I mean boss? I haven’t. Please, let me know if you know someone that makes more than their boss. It’s just madness in this world. It’s a shame that some people don’t see the truth.
February 6th, 2009 at 7:57 am
Troy,
Thank you for the comments. I have said all along it is my opinion, but the numbers back me up, sorry to say, not you. And I agree, most people are afraid to live their lives. I, for one, am not. The problem with your ranting is that it just isn’t true. Most people in MA do not make much money at all otherwise the MA balance sheet would tell a different story.
As for the question of “is MA better than corporate America?”, I just don’t see it. And, that’s not to say I’m a big fan of corporate America, either. First off, MA has so completely brainwashed you that you honestly think your “upline” is your boss, which simply isn’t true. Let me ask you, did you sign the contract with the “upline” or did you sign it with MA? The fact is, MA is your BOSS, not your upline. And, I guarantee you Ridinger makes more than the highest paid MA Unfranchise owner, bar none. In fact, based on MA’s balance sheet, I’d say most people at MA make more than 90-95% of Unfranchise owners. Troy, do the math and wake up.
Like I’ve said at least a dozen times in this post, do your homework, check the facts. Some people will make money, but most don’t. If you view it as a little bit of extra income in these hard times, then by all means go for it. If, however, you believe you are going to get rich off of MA, then I have some swampland in Antarctica to sell you.
February 6th, 2009 at 8:12 am
I joined MA with one of the top money earners, in fact I believe the top money earner about 7 years ago; I worked by butt off for 1 full year. I assumed working with the best, there was no way I could fail. Not true, after 1 year I think I may have made 500. And I was working 40 hours a week. That equates to .24 per hour. I would refer to that as slave labor. MA absolutely sucks! In fact, I am now in a business that sells a legitimate product that everyone literally needs, I protect families legally and from Identity Theft. It is Direct Marketing, but I do not need any downline whatsoever to make money, the product is needed and makes me money. The downline is just an added bonus. For info on my company, which Robert Kiyosake, the author of “RICH DAD, POOR DAD” says has the best compensation plan he has ever seen, bar none.
To make real money, selling a real needed product, not a bunch of garbage to fill a garage, go to:
http://www.greatcareerplan.com/IDTheftRiskSpecialist
February 6th, 2009 at 8:48 am
It cost me approximately 2000.00 to get on board the boat with JR so that I would for sure be successful so Actually rather than earning a measly .24 per hour, between the products I had to purchase and money spent towards my “success training”, the cost to me was approximnately 5000.00. hmmmm, 40 hours a week at say 10.00 per hour equates to 20,800.00 in lost wages, plus the 5000.00, that’s a hefty loff of (25,800.00)This is money I could have put towards my 5 childrens’ college education.
But I fortunately have made up the difference now thankfully have made up the difference with prepaidlegal
You can too, now I am working with the number 17 money maker, and he actually genuinely cares about my success!
And if you join our team, I promise you, we will do everything we can to ensure you make money, we will not fill you with empty promises and brainwashing. Our product sells itself, no convincing to be done; and we will come to you and work with you where you are, no having to come to us; we are already making six figures, our goal will be to get you there. As a christian, it is my desire to help others get through these difficult times, whether it be to help you create an income or help others who are unable to do so and just need help. We are instsructed to help the poor, widows and orphans; the key to true success is giving to others and God promises he will bless us back tenfold.
http:www.greatcareerplan.com/?IDTheftRiskSpecialist
February 8th, 2009 at 3:29 pm
Grant,
Many people have asked about the Market America Wikipedia page. I was able to follow a link from another website that brought me to the Wikipedia page for MA–but it has been deleted by Wikipedia admins. Twice. There is also an entry for “Market america” (lowercase “a”) that was also deleted. Following the deletion log, I found a link to the discussion thread that showed why it was deleted, and I have pasted it at the bottom of my post. Looks like it was just being used as spam to push the MA website, and could not cite resources. I just found this interesting, and thought I would share. See the URLs at the bottom of my posting, and the copy from the deletion page.
I personally do not have a bone to pick with MA. I think it’s pretty obvious that a few people make a lot of money, but that their money is usually based on a fast and glamorous sales pitch that pulls in a lot of people who will never make money through MA. Such is life. Just be honest about it.
I found your site while doing my own research (difficult to do on MA…) after I was approached by a friend to join MA. I know he is successful in his full time job, so I was very interested to hear about his residual income job. Although I was excited and could see that he is very enthusiastic about Market America, during the presentation/pitch I started to really lose my excitement. I just kept having all sorts of warning sounds going off in my head – the warning sounds I usually get when I feel I’m being lied to. That was really my main beef with the whole thing. I don’t mind if you enjoy MA and even make a lot of money at it, but I don’t like being lied to. That instantly made me bristle and lose interest.
A few pointers for MA sales-pitchers:
1) If you hand me a full color, glossy advertising brochure for MA, then I expect you to tell me that you’re handing me an advertising brochure. Don’t tell me that these are “trade magazines” that wrote articles on MA. It was pretty clear by the fact that “Market America” was mentioned on every single page of the “magazines”, from the editor’s letter, to the individual advertisements within the “magazines,” that these were clearly not 3rd party publications.
2) If you’re going to give me a sales pitch, try to avoid using the same catchphrases over and over, as well as overly-clever aphorisms. It makes it clear that you are spitting out the spiel of the corporation, and not your own personal experiences (I did find it rather humorous to come to this site and read some of the exact same phrases in the postings by a few of the MA fanboys here). I want to hear honesty and real words, not marketing copy. If you expect me to passionately spew to others the amazing life-changing qualities of OPC-3, I would at least like to hear something beyond a memorized script. Personally, I can’t get that passionate about a nutrition product just because a color brochure with a picture of some guy in a lab coat with a stethoscope told me how amazing it is. I think it’s pretty clear (based on an earlier posting above by a woman who said her doctor was recommending OPC-3 to her as a patient, AND happened to also be a seller of OPC-3) that just because someone is a doctor doesn’t mean they are ethical and competent.
3) If you go to the conventions and presentations that MA puts on for their UFO’s and new recruits, and you hear people touting their own personal success with MA, don’t refer to those people as your “friends”. It’s rather misleading to hear that you have a “friend” who made x-amount of money and lives in x-dollar house, or that you have a “friend” who only works x-number of hours a week and makes x-amount of money a year, or that you have a “friend” who is a doctor and had all these amazing things to say about OPC-3. Actually, there were about 3 “friends” who were doctors. How on earth did you happen to have so many friends who make hundreds of thousands of dollars a year with MA? And how on earth do you have so many friends who are doctors? Do you hang out at med schools to meet people? It was obvious that these nameless “friends” were speakers at MA conventions, who shared their glamorous success stories. They were not the average folk that my friend knew personally, and had signed onto MA. So don’t pretend they are.
4) Don’t try to woo me by telling me how many millions of dollars Target, Best Buy, eBay, etc. all bring in per year. It’s just confusing, and misleading, to use that as evidence for why I will be making so much money myself. It’s pretty irrelevant actually. The odds of me not only convincing everyone I know to start doing all of their general retail shopping online rather than in the store, but to also convince them to replace their main Google or Yahoo home page with my MA portal page…is pretty much slim to none. Let’s be realistic here. Best Buy makes a lot of money, but my friends and family aren’t exactly spending tens of thousands of dollars there.
5) If I ask how much money you make with MA, don’t tell me “enough.” I’ve heard this many times from MA pushers. Normally, income isn’t something that you ask people about. But when you’re trying to recruit me into a business venture that will cost me money, and you’re trying to do it on a sales pitch involving a vision of me in a mansion, and working 4 hours a week, then I expect you to cough up your own income numbers as proof of your own success.
Personally, I won’t be surprised if my friend ends up making good money with MA. He is just one of those types of people who knows how to do this sort of thing. He’s savvy, smart, motivated, and already makes a lot of money, so he can dazzle his recruits with fanciness. But I don’t think MA is for me. For 3 reasons:
1) I don’t have the right mindset to extol the virtues of potential riches to unwitting, starry-eyed dreamers,
2) I don’t have the right mindset to push a product that I haven’t personally tried and seen success with and personally believe to be absolutely amazing,
3) And I also don’t have the mindset to be dazzled by a fancy presentation into jumping into something until I know what I’m getting into.
But if anyone else happens to fit into any one of those categories, then by all means, this might be just the thing for you. You might even make some money. But one thing my friend was finally honest about is that it does take a lot of time and a lot of effort before you ever see the big bucks come in. He’s been building his business for 2 years now, and his income level right now is “enough.” He made it sound like it was a lot, but he also hasn’t quit his day job yet, so I wasn’t buying it. Will he make money? I hope so, and I believe he can. But who knows. However, I do know that I will like him a lot more when he starts living in the present rather than in these MA dreams that seem to be the focus of his life right now.
Bottom line: go in with eyes wide open. And if you can’t spare it, don’t spend it. Don’t gamble on the small possibility of riches. But if you’re the one who can do it, then go for it!
~me
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_America
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_america
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Market_America
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Here is the text of the deletion reasons from the Wiki Administrators
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article’s talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was speedy delete. — Nearly Headless Nick 11:00, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit]Market America
This article concerns an apparently non-notable company, and cites no reliable sources. John254 05:12, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
Delete as nn company, per nomination. –Kukini 05:42, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
Speedy delete as per CSD G11 ({{db-spam}}) Wrs1864 18:43, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
Delete per nom. advert–Hu12 19:54, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
Delete. User:Gringo1965 has repeatedly resubmitted copyvio text fro the company’s website. This is all spam and should be speedily wiped out, and is so tagged. Ohconfucius 07:00, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
February 10th, 2009 at 12:49 am
and p.s.
Thanks so much, Grant, for posting this site. I appreciate your honest evaluation of the business, as well as the opportunity to hear opinions from others. This was the only place I could find online that offered such an open forum for learning more about Market America. I can see that the program gets its success from its marketing techniques, so I’m glad to be able to see past that and get some real info.
Thanks!
February 11th, 2009 at 3:38 pm
Hi Troy,
You sound like you got pulled in and now stuck with MA. The reaction is typical of people who got into something with no way to get out. They have to promote and defend it, for personal vindications.
Hope its not true.
Phoenix
February 11th, 2009 at 3:42 pm
me
It would be interesting to see how much money is pulled in from new sign-up than actual sales. Any idea how much the initiation step costs. I am guessing 500 – 1000.
February 17th, 2009 at 11:52 am
Help! I have reunited with a friend from high school that told me about how she is with MA and talked to me about it. I knew from the start it was bringing back memories of me getting sucked in to a Amway presentation back in the 80’s. She is miles away as we have only been in contact by email and talked over the phone couple times.. she is really motivated with this, how do I tell her the truth of what the outcome will most likely become?
February 17th, 2009 at 12:35 pm
PhoenixM
Set up cost ranges from $99 – $1000
February 17th, 2009 at 9:06 pm
jv1: There really isn’t any way to tell her the outcome, because that is not something you can predict. At best, all you can do is have her do her homework and reach her own conclusions. That is, after all, what life is about.
February 18th, 2009 at 6:59 am
Hi jv1,
Just tell her the truth if she can’t deal with that’s her problem. If your heart is in it don’t do it. And it she never talks to you she was never a friend. Good Luck
February 19th, 2009 at 2:38 am
Dear Grant,
Yesterday I sat through a recruiting session, suffice to say I wasn’t impress and was very skeptical since I had seen similar MLM programs with sub-prime mortgages – we all know how that turned out.
I just finished reading this post in its entirety and found your analysis of MA to be very valuable. I was not going to join either way, money is tight as it is. However it is enraging to see how a few prey upon the weak — usually those in deep economic trouble, looking for a solution, some way out — promising the world by simply reading astronomically unrealistic income figures off a PowerPoint presentation.
I think in these tough economic times it would be very hard to convince people to purchase MA products (yes, of higher quality and price) when they could get it for half the price at any dollar store, wal-mart and the likes. Now is probably the worst time, economically speaking, for a business of this nature. Or any nature for that matter.
But ironically, during times of financial hardship is when companies such as MA thrive — because people are desperate.
Your site is one-of-a-kind.
Thanks !
February 20th, 2009 at 3:42 pm
I have been trying to do some research on MA myself and came across this blog. I like the balance of the pros and cons of MA here. I rent an apartment in a home owned by people who are in MA.
I went to talk to the wife about the company last Monday and she gave me the whole presentation and several glossy magazines, product catalog, and a getting started guide to look over. Frankly, my skepticism continues to grow and it just does not feel right to me. For those who have made it work for them, great and I am happy for you.
But looking at the getting started guide, it states the required commitments for getting in:
Follow the 12 month plan;
Commit 8-15 hours a week to the business;
Commit $500-$1500 in start up costs;
Attend an out of state training session;
Purchase a ticket to the next National Meeting;
etc….
I know right now this just is not for me. I just lost my job at the end of January and my unemployment comp does not amount to much. There is no way in heck that I can plunk down $500 or more in something like this, then go and buy a ticket to a convention! Fortunately I have money saved up as a cushion which I will need to draw on to supplement my puny unemployment. I do have a new job lined up, but will not start until April or May.
I just emailed the lady and told her that I will take more time to look over her material during the weekend, but in the end. I just intend to return the stuff and tell her that it is not for me.
Grant, (and everyone else too) thank you for sharing your comments here. To those who are in MA and find it working, may your business prosper and you get what you put into it.
February 27th, 2009 at 2:40 pm
Thanks everyone for notes. My friend is going to present this to me and i am skeptical but you gave me some good information as to what to look for.
February 28th, 2009 at 2:42 am
Thanks for the post Grant. It’s rare to find anything honest online when you try to get information for a business of this type. Everyone just seems to be following the same agenda of making a buck.
I came to your site in hopes to learn more about Market America after a friend of mine had mentioned it to me earlier in the day. I actually just joined Quixtar after having done tons of research and asking tons of questions to my upline. I even set myself up an excel spreadsheet in order to map out how exactly I would start making some money. I’m a civil engineer and numbers make more sense then english to me (as you may be able to tell by my bad grammer). Anyway, Quixtar made really good sense to me, and I was totally sold with the new Taproot system. My upline is an extremely motivated guy who I have known for about 9 years now. I saw him enter the business about 3 years and is now making $700 a month, not bad I think (thats a monthly lease payment on a range rover sport), but I think i can do better. However, before I get seriously committed to Quixtar and begin getting brainwashed, I wanted to hear if anyone had personally compared both business models or has made the switch from one to the other. I would just like to hear about your experiences, and whether either one was worth it to you. Please be honest, I don’t want to see any advertising. Grant, please delete advertising if you see it!
Based on my research so far, I’ve concluded:
1. MA has a lower sign-up fee than Quixtar
2. MA has a simpler business model
3. MA has a much more consumer friendly website
4. DELETED BY GRANT – Sorry, no slanderous statements, please
5. MA is shady cuz you can’t find anything on Wiki
6. MA requires you to annoy less people than Quixtar to make the same amount of income, however the Quixtar business plan seems a lot more stable and doesnt require you to annoy people to be your consumers. Why wouldnt a consumer want his own “unfranchise”?
7. Quixtar sucks cuz it has the Amway name stuck to it.
8. Quixtar taproot program seems like its gonna ROCK!!, or at least I hope it does.
9. It’s seems easier to start rocking and continue rocking with the Quixtar plan.
10. Quixtar products are more popular and seem to be of better quality.
February 28th, 2009 at 6:38 pm
I am glad that everyone involved in MA is behind what they are doing, you should or else do not do it. I think MA is made up of Real Estate agents, which had small not so good companies(bad market for them in real estate), Mary Kay and Herbal Life x sales people.
Tell me..Do you have a MA sign on your car? you should be proud, how many people will approach you?
If you have a great product and system it will sell it self, people will call you!
You actually PAY to go to a meeting with MA, how many companies make you pay to attend a marketing meeting?
Really, to defend a company that will give you millions before you have made the millions..
Yes there are those like the Dr. that was in MA selling the product and promoting..little but of an ethics question there, I would call the state Lic Board just to question that one. Especially, if she is an owner of an unfranchise!
How much is a ticket to the MA conference?
MA is a group of real motivational speakers, which is great, there are a lot of groups which have started that way. Actually I think they call it the MA Family…
thanks or should I say Lots of Love
(people in MA will know who that is from)
February 28th, 2009 at 7:34 pm
Rafael, if you need to get a part time income to
RENT a Range Roover….
Follow the 12 month plan;
Commit 8-15 hours a week to the business;
Commit $500-$1500 in start up costs;
Attend an out of state training session;
Purchase a ticket to the next National Meeting;
etc….
or
work at a (example) Gym 15 hours per week $12.00 per hour
x 52 weeks divided by 12 months $780.00 per month
working at the Gym have two of your friends join, you working at the gym will recv $100 per referral and when they refer 2 more friends another $200, sound familiar. but wait, you did not have to invest any of your money and you got great abs doing it!
and best of all YOU did it and YOU got the money!
the above is just an example and a question of if it is really YOUR unfranchise, have it also be YOUR money.
or you can pay someone MA to have you work for THEM!
or
$700 per month MA (we hope)x 12 months=$8,400
- $1500 in product- look at us MA meeting or also called look at us meeting, travel, and ticket – $2,000, if you have the money, if not on your charge card at 10%….
Do you see what I am saying….YOU can make it and YOU can do it YOU do not need someone else to take YOUR money to make THEM wealthy. Ask them if you can pay as you go program instead of the money up front…I bet not!
March 3rd, 2009 at 2:15 pm
It’s obvious. This blogger simply does not care for ‘corporations’. He says it’s not ‘worth his time’ since MA has threatened him with a cease and desist. Hmmm. BTW, MA does not say ‘without’risk but ‘little to no risk’ which means, in comparison with other types of business that statement is right on. MA is not a get rich quick deal but a legitimate business. The blogger then begs ‘please, please, please make sure you know what you are doing before you ’sign up’ for any business.” – oh what great compassion and concern. Yes, please . . . be a human and use your brain before you buy anything. It’s so obvious one has to wonder why this guy is saying so . . . hmmmm.
Those who can, do the rest attempt to be your ‘higher authority’ and teach.
March 3rd, 2009 at 3:42 pm
David,
I have no problem with corporations. I work for one and I am a shareholder in many. Nor do I have a problem with MA, per se. I do have a problem with corporations that practice to deceive. Does MA the corp do this? I’ve said all along MA is a legitimate company. Are there UnFranchise owners out there who do? Yes. How do I know? I met them. Well, they didn’t so much deceive, more like they simply refused to answer basic questions like “How much money did you make last year?” Based on the comments I’ve seen on this post, this seems to be a good part of the spiel when selling to others.
Also, what part of “no risk” doesn’t mean “without risk”? The website (http://www.marketamerica.com/corporate/index.cfm?action=services.wpCorpBiz) clearly says “little to no risk”. How is having to buy tickets to conventions and guaranteeing one meets a quote “no risk”? I could maybe buy “little risk”, but they explicitly say “no risk”. Clearly, MA has risk, just like any other business.
As for my compassion and concern, in this day and age, I totally agree people should use their brain and ask questions. Unfortunately, I think a lot of people are mislead and also don’t even know what questions to ask, especially if they have never owned a business before. Furthermore, a lot of companies with these kinds of business models take advantage of people’s fear of asking tough questions of someone standing right in front of them.
As for your brilliant quote about “those who can, do”, give me a break. As I’ve said before, I bet I make more money off of MA via the ads on this website then most UnFranchise Owners do worrying about their downlines and peddling their products, and I guarantee you, I spend a whole lot less time doing it.
But heh, keep the comments coming. Clearly I’m hitting the mark, otherwise there wouldn’t be a need to discredit me with statements like “This blogger simply does not care for ‘corporations’” instead of actually discussing the issues around MA and other business like it. That last quote is especially priceless since a good chunk of the MA selling point is about how “un” corporate they are and how, by joining, one can be free of the tyranny that is “corporate America”.
March 6th, 2009 at 1:40 pm
Question for the masses: if a blog is a site to publish personal opinion, why is it that everyone is threatening to sue Grant? How many people disparage Wal-Mart and don’t get sued?
I think there is something here that needs to be explored more thoroughly. Like why sue over someone’s personal opinion. If the mega-corp doesn’t, what does MA, which seems to have hit an explosive growth spurt, have anything to worry about?
Ever hear of the 1st Amendment? Try practicing it. And while we’re at it, we can remind the politicians too.
March 6th, 2009 at 2:41 pm
Paul,
The First Amendment doesn’t give you the right to slander. On the old post, there were some statements that MA took to be slanderous (funny, they had no issue with all the MA people who were slandering me, but I digress), which is why they threatened me with legal action. Of course, this was never proven, but rather than fight a legal battle, I chose to remove the comments and replace with my post and disclaimer above. Furthermore, I now delete posts that I deem to be slanderous either against me or MA.
The funny thing is, there are tons of sites out there that say far worse things about MA than my site (note: I never said them, other people did in their comments) ever did. The lawyer, when confronted with this, admitted I was being pursued solely because I had such high Google ranking. He assumed, incorrectly, that since I know a thing or two about search, that I had somehow manipulated the rankings. Naturally, this is pure idiocy. If I knew how to manipulate the Google rankings for profit, I certainly wouldn’t waste my time with small fish like MA; I’d make sure I was #1 for something that is really high traffic, like the latest gossip on some celebrity.
The other really funny part of it is, my high ranking is in large part due to all the MA fanboys who click on my site and come in to flame me. That’s simply SEO 101.
March 7th, 2009 at 9:44 pm
Grant
Thanks for the web site. I heard both sides of the story, which everybody has. I attend a MA meeting at a friends house and then found this blog. I will attend the”big One” on Tuesday. I question just to hear. I find it amazing how poeple go nuts over a blog. The internet is so great, poor amway poeple wish they had the internet
March 13th, 2009 at 3:00 pm
Two types of business you can do to make profit:
1. Nobody is doing it.
2. Everybody is thinking of it, nobody is capable of doing it.
March 18th, 2009 at 11:14 am
Neo,
If nobody is doing it, there must be a reason.
If nobody is capable of doing it, there must me a reason.
As for the rest of this thread, I’m not sure what to make of MA. I can see the potential to reap what you sow, but why would you have to incur so much expense to do so? Why the minimum purchases, why charge admission to “mandatory” meetings, and why charge your new hires a fee for “mandatory” training? That’s the stumbling block for me.
March 20th, 2009 at 8:27 am
Paul,
The front load and back load charges are what’s called “growth”. Every person they sign up is guaranteed income on their balance sheet. This is how they can “present” it as growing the company each year. I am not a fan of MLM, but MA might be hitting a “growth” spurt due to the state of our economy, unfortunately. Remember, the ultimate sales pitch is financial independence coupled with motivational speeches. This is a powerful combination in my opinion. When people are fearful of losing their job, this provides an alternative of financial freedom. When they hear the positives re-enforcements of a motivational speech, people take the bait. The motivational speech is good, it helps to get some people off their butts and re-focus their lives but the larger purpose of MLM is to get people to signed up, pay the fees and authorize MA to bill them for goods each month. GL to all!
March 24th, 2009 at 12:40 am
Grant,
Thanks for the blog. A friend has been after me to join MA for months. Another friend wants me to attend a meeting, however the company name is not mentioned, but I was assured it was not Amway. I have always been leary of MLM’s. Now I know what questions to ask and to inquire about start up fees, quotas and mandatory product purchases. Not to mention how much her MA website cost her. My friend avers she has a residual income of $2400.00 per month. Based on the math presented, that means she has to be one of the very rare exceptions. Which leads me to believe how much is she paying off on a credit card or in debt for all the business and marketing materials sold to her by MA to get to that point. Also is there monthly debits for mentoring fees, website usage and product purchases. How much of that residual income is net income vs gross income.
My gut instinct tells me from the MA corporate website is that there is a lot of smoke screen hype. In their web cams and on their web site pages many big corporation names are mentioned. Example: the partnering with Google is referenced which is (or will be) a huge step forward for MA. Please enlighten me what do they mean by being a one stop “portal”? Is MA really associated with all the companies on their website? To me it seems like the old adage “if it’s too good to be true, then it is”.
March 26th, 2009 at 7:32 pm
I have friends that tried to get me involved in this. I found it interesting that several of my other friends also got involved through them. After repeated harassment about this “great opportunity” I had it and told them to just leave me alone. our friendship has not been the same since. Only one out of the four friends is still pushing this product. I can’t believe the money they spend traveling and the absurd claims they have about this stuff! For example caffeine in coffee is “bad” caffeine but caffeine in the product is good! Whenever I ask about how much they make I NEVER get specifics- just “it’s going well”. Anybody who is proud of what they do and wants someone else to join is quick to point out how much they make. Like all get rich quick schemes most people never get rich- others make out like…bandits.
March 27th, 2009 at 10:49 am
I was just approached by a wife of a friend about MA yesterday, I’m also a “health professional” but find what they designate as licensed health professionals to be sketchy at best. Legally, I can sell the product to my patients but ethically, that’s a whole different story. I also find it wrong to ask for a list of my friends in the “profession”, which thankfully I can’t give out because we sign a non-disclosure statement at my place of employment.
As someone in school (and working full time) and about to switch careers, I don’t have extra money to essentially start a business. The individual that approached me was insulted when I said I needed time to think about things. The reply was: “What to think about?” I wanted to be able to do some research on my own and while I knew she and her husband sold for something similiar to Amway I wasn’t sure of the company until after hearing the presentation.
The hardest part about saying no, her husband is going to be supervising me in the fall for the change in career deal. Hopefully, he’ll stick to his ethics and be understanding of my decision to not take part in MA.
April 7th, 2009 at 1:57 pm
I posted something earlier regarding the company we have built a business with. I can promise all of you this is the ONLY company that you can build a business with where NOBODY gets hurt. They are in the Better Business Bureau Hall of Fame. It’s a wholesale company where everyone is just a customer. No large investment (only $29 for the wholesale membership, that’s it), yet we all shop for better, safer products that save us all time and money. To begin building true residual income…all you do is refer others to shop with them. That’s it. Again, no investment (beyond the $29 annual membership), no distribution/selling of products…they just want to give the billions of dollars typically spent on advertising back to the customers to thank them for referring others to shop with them. The most powerful form of advertising there is – word of mouth referral. Our paycheck this month is over $2,000 (we have a copy of our most recent paycheck to prove it as well as our business report). This is not a company built on hype, only hope. It’s helped our customers with health issues and financial trouble with this tough economy. If you want to learn more, just e-mail me at thewestlunds@msn.com. I’d be glad to share what I know with you to see if it’s a good fit for you. Minimally, everyone should at least be a customer. Excellent products, prices and health benefits.
April 8th, 2009 at 9:55 am
Wellness Co.
Let me guess this is Melaleuca?
April 17th, 2009 at 3:14 pm
I too have been approached. What irked me was I was invited to a networking meeting to meet other business professionals. As I was trying to grow my recently opened business, I thought it would be great to meet other area business owners. I showed up and the doors closed and out came the MA presentation. Needless to say I just left as I am not interested in MLM companies. Some people have success with them, it is not for me. What bothered me was ruse to get people to come. If it is great just state what it is and let people decide. No need to call it something it is not just to get people in the door.
April 17th, 2009 at 10:45 pm
Grant,
Today I met with a an individual who has been with MA for 3 years. I invited him over to discuss MA and his experience since I was curious and looking for extra income. I listened carefully with an open mind but when I asked specifically for answers to questions similar to the ones that you have repeatedly mentioned in your blog, i.e. monthly earnings, product sales, upfront cost, etc.. this individual could not give me specifics. My gut never felt comfortable about this and still doesn’t. During the entire conversation I kept asking myself, why would I have to spend so much money to make money – and still the numbers were abysmal. I even figured out in my head what I could do with a realistic plan and minus the fed/income tax, the numbers sucked. It is not worth it. Everyone seems to think you are going to get the easy way out by investing in a few dollars for just a few hours of work and make a load of dough. (This was pretty close to how it was being “sold” to me). I learned in life that if you are honest and if you work hard and work efficiently, you can succeed in life – you do not get “something for nothing”.
This evening I wanted to research the company so I jumped on the internet and looked up market america. I read your entire blog tonight and I have to honestly say that I have to stay with my gut. It still does not feel right and I think I will pass on MA. Thank-you for your honest, fair and balanced blog. I truly appreciate all of the entries because this has just provided validation in my decision not to pursue this or any other MLM or “one to one” marketing plan. Best of luck to everyone.
April 24th, 2009 at 1:33 am
first of all, i respect your opinion,
but how can you judge a company by just listening once?
“I just listened to one presentation and that was enough for me”.
So do you think when google first established,
you will be 100% like the company?
If they invite you to join the corp team,
and you will think that this “search engine” definately is gonna work?
of course not, thats why people are so diversed,
besides, when ppl is struggling about something,
people definately will google it,
and do you think ppl like positive things or negatives things,
even there are 99% good about the company, but only one negative thing will make them to think about this business might not be good as the other 99% ppl said,
and of course your webpage will be the top 10 on google.
more important(not talking about you), if you think MA is sketchy,
how about lehman brothers? golden saks? freddic mac?
and also AIG?
these companies are the ones called sketchy …..
and really waste tax payers money
April 24th, 2009 at 1:20 pm
Alex, thanks for the comments. I agree about AIG, etc. and other criminals. Can’t argue with criminals.
As for your Google question, there is a HUGE difference. Namely, if Google came to you and said “I’ve made a ton of money off this fancy thing called PageRank and you can too. Just sign here. It’s little to no risk”, but then wasn’t willing to show me that they actually made the money, what would you do? That is the message I got in the ONE meeting with an MA rep. and it is echoed by many others in the comments above.
Now, contrast that with what Google, and many other business actually do when starting up. They say: “Here’s an opportunity. We think it will work. It may not. Here’s our best guess at the kind of money we can make given the market is interested. Oh, by the way, here’s the research we did which leads us to believe the market is interested.”
In that ONE meeting I had, if the person sitting across from me would have looked me in the eye and given JUST ONE concrete answer about the amount of money they made doing MA (and backed it up w/ some proof later), I would never have started this blog entry. But, as I suspect, and I believe my suspicions are born out by MY reading of the MA annual report, I doubt a large chunk of MA owners actually are making money (and I mean profit, not revenue).
But, heh, that’s just my opinion and my guess on my analysis. Draw your own conclusions.
April 29th, 2009 at 8:37 pm
To anyone who wants to find out if something like this is worthwhile, take Grant’s advice and ask to see some income verification. I went through the Amway thing years ago as well, and after a month or so of going to meetings and pep rallies or whatever you want to call them, they were pressuring me like crazy to sign up saying they could no longer invest their time with someone who wasn’t “serious about the business”. Well, I just pulled one of the other guys aside who had been working his tail off at it for like two years and had been preaching Amway to anyone with a set of ears that got within speaking distance – I just asked him to show me some paychecks. I figured if someone who had put in all that effort and dedication wasn’t making some decent $$ yet – then my chances were looking pretty grim. He never would show me anything – saying that I couldn’t gauge my results off someone elses, or something to that effect. I walked and never looked back.
May 1st, 2009 at 2:01 am
MA insights
It has been two nights now since i havent been able to fall asleep until early morning. Last night i came home after a long day at work to see my dad very upset with me. i will explain why but first i am going to tell you people what kind of a person i am, i am real to you, i will not tell lies, nor will i try to convince you about my ideals, so you can believe me. i strongly believe everyone is able and liable to make their own decisions of what is good and bad. What i try to do or pass down, is my experience and my insights on being a good fellow entrepreneur. I strongly believe that there is a way for people to live in prosperity together, working for the same goal, and making it big together. now my dad,whom is a very successful man, doesnt have the slightest idea of what i have been doing besides working at a new pharmacy and going to network marketing presentations. i havent seen him much lately because i have been busy working and he had been overseas. he began to say things like im wasting my time not acturally earning any income and that the whole network marketing business is totally a ridiculus scam. i can tell by his attitude that his idea of what network marketing is, is anything but a positive one. in fact it was so negative that he said in other countries, network marketing is illegal. now i havent spoken to him since but it made me realize the attitude and the ring that attaches to network marketing is nothing but a sour one.and then i started to think deeper into why network marketing has such a negativity to it.
after my dads one sided argument, i was really fraustrated because of the misunderstanding, and the lack of communication i have with him. he has no idea what network marketing is！ nor does he know anything about what market america is! i ask myself how can i acturally rob myself away a oppurtunity where, if there was even a slightest chance of making good money, i wouldnt do it soley because of his feelings towards NM. whether i do the business or not, no matter what negativity comes with network marketing, i think it is in the best interest that I judge that for myself. I can not throw away a oppurtunity to learn about a way to make money. i should judge it myself, i should see what the compensation plan is, i should ask questions that others will not answer and prove, to push people to explain to me what network marketing really is..
so i started doing some research. i came across a very interesting blog.
the link are as follows:
http://www.grantingersoll.com/2006/01/29/market-america-questions/
As i research and read many after many testimonials and blogs, some that are positive, some that are negative, i began to form a bigger picture of what has happened to network marketing and what network marketing really is.
can you think how? have you tried?
now what i am about say next may be very important to many people that are already in network marketing. it may give them a way to possibly change how people feel about network marketing. so listen up!!!
i have notice everywhere i go, almost everybody have already heard or been in these type of businesses. and most importantly their ideals and their thoughts about this is so negative, so corrupt, that they will shut you out the second you speak of signing up. they do this without evening offering to tune in on a chance to make money. and even as, if they do stay and “listen”, i know i just know that in the depths of their mind, they dont even want to be there, listening to what the business has to offer, they way the companies can compensate for your efforts. this is the main PROBLEM HERE folks, for network marketing. how can you make money when you cant recruit people with ease? so many of them already have so much negativity, how can you even get them to join and more importantly, want to join. now folks, let me emphasize that a lot and i mean a lot of people who do join network marketing, dont do the business right, and dont talk to people the right way and when it really comes down to it, dont really know what network marketing really is. I mean when there is so much negativity around that category, how can anyone learn the business? how can anyone understand the true definition of what network marketing is, this is my opinion. the key i believe to network marketing is being able to get people to join, able to expand your connections through connections, and eventually throughout the nation, using other peoples connections. but then again, the problems comes back to haunt us, how can we make these connections when everybody is so negative about it. friends eventually turn into enemies because they feel like they betray them, forcing them to join such a ridiculus partnership in return for HOPES in achieving finacial freedom,but when they realize later on, it didnt turn out that way, the majority of the people dont get any or very little in return. so why. why do people join and fail? is it because they feel obligated to do it, or because they truly feel that they can make money. i dunno. but what i do know is that network marketing, HOW IT HAS BEEN PERFORMED, HOW IT HAS BEEN TAUGHT in the past companies(some that has been very successful may i say) were not doing it right. why is it that out of all these distributors and people who signed up, only a few made it rich? you know why? it is because those top players knew what network marketing is about, they knew how to talk and explain, how they can teach it to other people who can get others to join. but as tree gets taller, the lessons taught became more and more swayed from the “real truth”. eventually people feel that they are LYING to them about the business, and they start not believing in the business themselves! That is why so many have failed. why so many did not see any returns. and especially why NOW EVERYONE IS SO MAD OR DISCOURAGED WITH these type of businesses. you see there is a trend now. and i hate to say it but that trend in network marketing is that people everywhere know about the business and are absolutely negative about it. “you can fool me once, but you cant fool me twice!” they lack themselves the chance to learn new and better business deals and a way to make that money. but ladies and gentelmen, i can not STRESS that this is not the case. imagine with me for one minute, that if that trend were to shift towards the light, the postive feelings, imagine how many people will be available. how much more opportunities there would be, and how quickly you will be able to build your network. my answer to this is shift this downward trend. teach people that network marketing is the biggest misconcept in the entire world.turn the negativity around and use it to your advantage. explain to them what has happened to network marketing and then explain to them the TRUE POTENTIAL of what network marketing can do, and then explain why this concept has been distorted over the last half century. you see when the previous successful leaders in NM were in play, they were not able to maintain and keep building on.why do i say this? because NM is endless, as long as you can get more people to join, it will never stop. but what happen previously? why were the majority of the entrepreuers so upset and did not get any returns, even if they work their butts off. because people started to get the wrong conception about NM, people eventually was discouraged from it and tagged it a failure, without realizing what they have given up on. i know that network marketing CAN BE very successful. and i have seen and talk to those who did make it big. NM is one of many keys to making money but ULTIMATELY AND TRUTHFULLY,the question to ask is, is it right for you? most importantly, are you going to give yourself a chance to learn about this opportunity in a positive manner. can you get others to judge and decide in a positive manner towards NM? majority of the presentations today get into the business and what it is, but none of which truly explain what NM is. instead when at presentations, your bombarded with all these information about the company, the products, the compensation plan with the distributors all trying to get you to join(so much pressure) but none of which teaches you the most important key to NM and that is getting people to connect to other people and others and on,…. and here is the key…ENDLESSLY. Instead of forcing information on people, can you turn this trend of negativity? can you educate people to erase the misconception of NM and get them to truly join NM by themselves? more importantly getting everyone else to join you because they heard what it really is like to be in NM. the decision is on you. do your research as i have done mine.if you read the blog link that i have posted, you will see arguments that can be used to teach people about NM. some of the most important questions with what people have to say are posted there. and by seeing their answers, i have realized that there is a way to educate people without having them feel like they are obligated or tricked. but that is my secret.
i thank you all for staying with me and reading this whole entire article and i am not sure if any of this makes sense but i truly feel that, if people can change their minds about NM, then it is possible to make it big. i believe the way you get people involved and the way you talk to them is one of the most important aspects to improve in NM. thank you for your time.
May 5th, 2009 at 2:33 pm
Dear Teezy,
blah blah blah…holly cr*p dude. I got dizzy reading the first two paragraphs. I’ve been approached by at least two MLM salesperson. They speak like you. I’ve never tried MLM in my life because I just could never get comfortable with the sales pitch and pressure.
The condescending, helpful, motivating BS is just that…BS. Your dad is right on !
May 8th, 2009 at 12:08 am
There are pros and cons to everything in life. Good and bad experiences.
If you were to have a bad experience playing golf for the first time, because no one taught you how to play the game or gave you no instructions, would that make golf a bad game?
Would Tiger Woods then be the enemy?
Would you tell all your friends that golf is bad? Would you stop associating with any of your friends who played golf?
When people start up with any business, network marketing or other, they need to go into it with the understanding it will require time and/or investment on their part. It will require effort. The problem with many is that they want to do little or nothing and expect something in return. Do you know any fellow employees who procrastinate or do the least amount they can do? Sure you do, we all know people like that. To be a business owner you have to be informed and willing to do the time and energy to build your business.
If you have any business and you want to have customers (or in network marketing – expand your team) you need to put your message out there without being pushy or overbearing. If a brick and mortar business (say a mom and pops grocery store) sent their bag boys out onto the street to push, pull drag customers into their store, they are going to be met with resistance. However, if they announce their store in a friendly casual but positive manner, when someone needs food, the customer will likely enter the grocery store.
I am with Market America. And it has allowed me to replace my former income. When I talk to someone, I don’t force it down their throat. If it comes up in casual conversation great, if not, great. If someone I am talking to starts to describe a problem they are having, and I know of one of our products that could solve that particular problem or at least reduce the problem then I will suggest they may want to give it a try. Again, no pressure. If they do, great. If not, great.
If in conversation they describe finances and the need/desire for greater income. Then I will talk to them about the business and some of the ways it could provide them with the income they need. Should they decide to start a MA business, then I confirm their commitement to the business, show them exactly what they need to do to be successful and I help them implement it. And work with them until they are successful.
I make sure they understand its a part time business that will require a certain amount of work involved. It is not a spare time business.
My advice for anyone in any business is to be sincere, helpful, positive and honest. If you try to push, shove, pull or appear decietful in any manner people will see right through you and look at you as if you were one of those auto injury lawyers advertising on tv.
May 8th, 2009 at 12:25 am
Now, when people talk about networking and say the word networking with a negative tone, then there is a misconception.
We all network.
Main Entry: net·work·ing
Function: noun
Date: 1967
1: the exchange of information or services among individuals, groups, or institutions ; specifically : the cultivation of productive relationships for employment or business.
This whole blog is a form of networking. We are all exchanging information.
We network with our friends and family. We share experiences good and bad.
The department and grocery stores you shop at network to get supplies and to train their sales teams and cashiers. Walmart is a good example of this. They have a network of suppliers, they have a network of stores, they have a network of employees and a customer base. And when they want more money, they open another walmart and look for more employees to work for a profit and look for customers to buy their product.
When you tell your friends of a great place to eat or a bad movie to ignore (ie: X-men origins Wolverine)you are exchanging information and thus networking.
And the oldest and biggest network out there – religion. Think about the size of the network that Jesus started with just the few he had.
May 8th, 2009 at 12:52 am
Dear livinglife,
I think you are the first intelligent person I’ve heard from MA on this blog. I’m glad MA is working for you. In the two plus years I’ve been maintaining this blog, it is pretty clear to me that you are the exception and not the rule.
As for golf and Tiger, there is a big difference. I can experience golf by paying a one time fee w/o having to sign up for the whole next year and I’m not contractually obligated to play going forward. Furthermore, I can survey the course and watch other people play first to determine if it is for me. My impression of MA, and I think it is backed up by other people’s experience, is that no one wants to tell the truth about how much money they make. Yet, clearly, the MA’s very own self-published financial information indicates most people do not make much at all. You, livinglife, may very well not be that way. I certainly hope so. If MA had more people like you, this blog wouldn’t even exist.
May 8th, 2009 at 9:58 am
Hi Livinglife,
You sound like a nice person. But isn’t true that during “normal” conversations, your typical MLM person is just waiting for the catch phrases.. ” I don’t like my job, wish I had more money, wish I had more time….” to spring the trap ? From my experiences dealing with MLM sales pitch, these are what they wait for. And in some cases, coax the other person into saying. It’s called baiting. Unless you are well off and don’t have to work, who doesn’t want to make more money, have more time. Its the oldest trick in the book. I don’t want to sounds angry but when people try to sucker punch others and say its ok, it won’t hurt. I don’t like it. If its a dog, say its a dog. The truth will set you free.
GL in what ever you decide to do, as long as it does not harm anyone else.
)
May 9th, 2009 at 12:07 am
Hi Grant,
Thanks for the compliment. I apologize about making what seems to be a bad analogy when talking about golf. I didn’t mean to make it sound like I was comparing golf to market america. What I meant to indicate is if you have a bad experience with something, say like golf or market america, doesn’t make it all bad.
Your point about surveying the course and playing golf once and not having to keep playing is very valid.
With Market America many (but not all) have our new business associates do what is called a “trial run”. Where we look to find customers for the partner first. Then find team members for their business, all before they have even started their business and have no money out of pocket. And idealy, before any forms are signed, this is duplicated with that person’s partners. This way, if it works, great. If it doesn’t work for them, then they aren’t in a financial loss. Problem is, too many people want to rush and jump in the deep end before learning to swim.
And you are right. Not everyone makes money with MA. And that’s unfortunate, as it creates a negative image with people. Everyone in the business has the potential to make money, but not everyone does.
Everyone starts the business the same. They are provided the same tools, products etc that everyone else has. So they all have the same common denominator. The numerator is different for all though. Those factors can be so varied and endless. But the two biggest would be the individual and their sponsor. How well informed are they both. How committed to their mutal success are they. What level of communication skills do they possess.
In my case, my sponsor quit a few months after I started the business. Fortunately, I had other people I could turn to for assistance. And I realized I could do this if I put my nose to the grindstone.
As to the money. There are nearly 200 people that have made a million dollars in commissions with MA. Yes, thats a small percentage compared to the number of distributors. There are hundreds that make full time income from MA, and thousands more that make supplemental income. And some are just there for the products and the commraderie. And no doubt there are people there who have no clue why they are there.
I guess what I am trying to say is the potential is there for people. But not everyone gives forth their full potential to realize their dreams. And that applies to almost everything in our society.
May 9th, 2009 at 12:48 am
Hi PhoenixM,
I totally agree with you. Heck, because I often wear a shirt that has our MA logo, I end up being approached by people from other network marketing companies.
They will use every baiting technique under the sun on me. Even when I say I am very content with where I am with MA, they use the line “But you could make so much more money with Brand X company”.
I’ll be polite to them. Exchange business cards etc. I might even attend one of their meetings. Though I have no intention of ever leaving MA. Or I look up their business online. And the reason I do so is because I like to be informed.
I’ve had people from other companies come into my business. So ulimately, I get asked how our company differs from their previous company. The more informed I am, the better I can answer.
But I digress. As I was saying about being approached by those using those baiting techniques. It sends the hairs standing up on the back of my neck much as they do yours I would imagine.
And you’re absolutely right. I don’t know of anyone who couldn’t use or want more money. I hear it often in conversation. Sometimes I respond to it, often more I casually ignore it. I have no desire to appear like a vulture looking at its next meal. At some point I will probably respond to them if it keeps coming up. But usually after its occured in several conversations with them. And my comment then is something along the lines “are you serious about that or just venting” or “you know I might be able to help you out there, but its up to you”.
Ultimately, the best way I have found to grow my business is through the branded products and through our website. They either try the products and then want to get more information about the business or I show them how our website can potentially save them money with their shopping and then they want to know how I make money from that.
My goal there is just securing another customer and addressing their needs. Which goes back to some of my other posts. Get the customers first.
It could seem like baiting in the long term. If it is, then its a long trail of bread crumbs to the trap. I just want them to be satisfied customers. I’d rather my customers come to me then my going to them.
There is one exception though. One of my partners I originally had no intention of bringing on board. But they were buying so much product on a regular basis that after totalling up their purchases based on a year vs the cost of distributor costs and the costs associated with being a distributor that they could save nearly $500 a year. I made sure they knew what was required of them as a distributor first, and they chose to do the business. They aren’t in MA to make a lot money, but are there to save money instead. And over the last couple years they have made a lil extra in retail sales, thus saving them more on their own purchases. And they know I am there to help them whenever they need.
Boy I digress a lot tonight. LoL.
Ok, I’m outta here for the night.
Have a great weekend everyone reading this!
May 9th, 2009 at 1:55 pm
Hi -
I just spent the afternoon reading this entire and blog because I just “signed on” to be a MA unfranchiser and I am quite disturbed about my decision.
There have been very few references to the quality of the MA products- the only one I remember is “sugared vitamins.” There were references to OPC-3, but not about the quality and results, it was about the cost and the BV associated with the product.
.
Again, I’m questioning my decision because the people from MA who have responded on this blog have not been debating how wonderful the products are. The debates have been a defense of the structure, the cost of doing business, ability to make money, who gets paid what and who gets to go on the yachts?
It’s disturbing me because it seems that a conversation about the products is non existent or a very secondary conversation to the money. Please don’t misunderstand me, I want to make money, but there are alot of products in the world that can be sold.
I also questioned the fixed costs one has to pay on a monthly basis to stay in the MA business and I have justified it as a franchise fee. It is counter intuitive to have to work really hard to sell someone else’s products and pay to learn about them and pay to sell them. MA is not well-known in the marketplace and doesn’t have the brand recognition that many other products have.
With all this said I’m going to think about my decision and ask my upline about their investment and their return thus far. Hey, if it’s about the money I want to know the ROI.
May 9th, 2009 at 3:08 pm
Grant,
There seems to be quite a few misconceptions on how much money you can make with MA when following their plan. Keep in mind, they advertise this as a 2-3 year plan, not a 2-3 month plan. What that means, is you won’t make squat the first 2-3 years. They tell you this up front, it is not a secret. There is no promises of quick riches, easy money, no risk or no investment, no work, etc.
Think about it. It might take your average Joe 3-6 months just to sponsor the 2 downline people and become “activated”. It might take another 3-6 months for those two to get their 2 downline people each. Now you’ve reached the so called base-10, 7-strong (meaning each distributor has an average of 10 retail customers purchasing an average of 30BV/month, and the 7 distributors each purchase 100BV/month (for 400BV total per distributor).
After 12 months, you might have made a total of $1500 in commisions. MA tells you this, and anyone doing their due diligence would already know this.
The key is duplication, the power of two. Chances are it will take half as long (6 months) to make your 2nd $1500. And probably only 3 months to make the 3rd $1500. Then 6 weeks, then 3 weeks, then 1.5 weeks. Add it up.
After 2 years in the business, you are doing well if you’ve made a total of $10,000 commission. This sounds like a lousy deal. Any part-time job at McDonalds will pay you more than that over 2 years time.
Ah, but now you are making $1500 every week during the 3rd year. This is residual income. Doesn’t matter if you’re working or not, you are still getting the checks in the mail. So what if it takes you twice as long? Or 4 times as long? You would be making $1500/month in residual income instead of $1500/week. Who couldn’t use an extra $1500/month?
Many people will quit in the first year because they aren’t making “big” money? Or during the 2nd year? How many of those 150,000+ distributors are only in their 1st year? Or barely in their 2nd year? I’m sure the turnover is very high at MA, or any other networking business.
And as far as the startup costs. People are complaining that it costs $600-$1000 to start and a $100/month thereafter? What do you think that money is for? That is to purchase your starting inventory and to try some of the products yourself. Why would you sell products that you don’t use yourself? You can sell half of your initial inventory and use the other half personally or give some free samples to get people to try them. Good grief, people on here think MA should give you the stuff free. Name another business that doesn’t have startup costs, yet has the potential to make $1500/wk in 3 years time.
May 9th, 2009 at 6:47 pm
kanyoudiggit,
I think what you say is nice in theory, but the numbers from MA tell a different story. Are you saying those 150K+ distributors just signed up? Why is there such a high turnover for something that is such an obvious win (in your mind, anyway)? I mean, it seems like a no brainer according to you, but yet people are dropping out all the time according to you. Likewise, the MA annual report tells the story more accurately. The average person is not making money on MA, residual or not.
I do, however, agree, it takes money to make money, so having to invest to purchase inventory is not unreasonable.
As for quick riches and no risk, have you read http://www.marketamerica.com/corporate/index.cfm?action=services.wpCorpBiz? The last bullet under the features section says: “Little to no risks”
May 9th, 2009 at 7:45 pm
“Little to no risks” means exactly that, somewhere between none and little.
You are not investing $10k with a risk of losing it all like say in General Motors stock, or investing $100k into a franchise like a UPS Store that can go bankrupt and lose it all.
You are investing a few hundred dollars in inventory up front and putting some time in for learning/training. If it doesn’t work out, you can quit anytime. In return, you got some products for your money and some training. What’s the big risk? Sell the products to get your money back.
It is not for everyone, obviously. Many people find that out after they already signed up. Most people are not patient and/or don’t want to put much effort in to making it work (prospecting, recruiting, retailing, etc.). When they see that the money is not flowing in immediately, some (probably many) will quit. When people see that they will only be making like $10k total in 2 years, they will quit because that sounds like too much time and work for only peanuts.
I have no idea how many of the 150K+ distributors are in their first 2 years. My point is, how many have been in for 3+ years? I bet >50% of those are making more than $1500/month in commissions. That’s not riches by any stretch, but it’s something the average Joe can do in 3 years doing it part-time. Those above-average Joes can do it in shorter time and below-average Joes can do it in longer time.
It’s like any other line of work. Most people are average, some are above and some are below. Some will change their line of work.
May 9th, 2009 at 8:06 pm
Susan,
The products are absolutely top-notch. The MA folks on this blog are debating the money issues because that’s all the non-MA folks want to talk about.
Like I mentioned before, why would you sell products you don’t use yourself and believe in? This is the reason for the minimum monthly purchase (of only 50-100 BV of product). If you aren’t using the products, you should’t be in the business.
One bottle of OPC-3 and one bottle of Calcium is all it takes to satisfy the minimum monthly requirement. Heck, sell them if you don’t want them for yourself.
You don’t have to pay to learn about the products. All the training materials are available for free download to Unfranchise owners. You also get a free MP3 player loaded with much of the audios.
See my previous post regarding ROI. If you’re expecting any kind of return in the first 2 years, quit now (like many others do). This is not a get rich quick scheme. It is a legit business that will take the average Joe 2-3 years before he can make significant residual income.
The goal is to sell enough retail product to pay for your expenses such as travel, seminars, etc., which are all optional by the way but if you want to be successful you need as much training as you can get. I can see by your post, you have much to learn still…
May 12th, 2009 at 8:19 am
kanyoudiggit,
The two salespeople I met with (I hate to call them owners, b/c really they are just trying to “sell” MA to you, not trying to actually sell product) had been at MA for a good long time. The one had been in it for 5+ years, and the other for well over 2. The person who had been in it for 5 years was still not making much at all (less than $1K per month despite putting well over 20 hours per week into it, although he couldn’t give me actual numbers b/c he had no clue), yet he spent the whole time trying to tell me how I could get rich. The other person could not tell me how much she made either. I hear this a lot on this blog. All you hear about is BV points and residual income and getting others to sign up, but no one actually says anything about real money in their pockets. Which is why I KEEP telling people to ask those types of questions, including asking to see their tax returns. You can blather on all you want about residual income and “no risk” and all these years it takes, but at the end of the day, as Cuba Gooding Jr. says “Show Me the Money!” Because, looking at the MA financial report, it is pretty obvious to me that the only people making money on MA is a few salespeople and the executives at MA. I suspect, however, based on a number of MA posts here, that most people in MA end up buying their own stuff to meet their monthly requirements.
Finally, my other favorite line of yours is “but if you want to be successful you need as much training as you can get.” In other words, pony up your money to attend the conferences and the training seminars. Sure training is valuable, but it often seems to be the end game for MA, not a step out into the real world. But, as I can see by your posts, you still have much to learn…
May 12th, 2009 at 1:40 pm
Grant,
I agree with most of what you say. I don’t deny that most people are not cut out for sales or good at recruiting people that are good at sales and/or good at recruiting, etc.
Therefore, the majority of the people will NOT become financially independent via MA alone, as they will progress too slow and eventually drop out.
My advice to anyone is don’t quit your day job until you prove you can be successful at it, and don’t expect to be successful for at least 2-3 years. It is definitely not for everyone. I’m not sure why the people you met couldn’t tell you what they’re making, regardless of tax returns. Everyone should know how long it took them for their first $1500 flush (12 months?), their 2nd $1500 flush (6 months?), etc. The amount of time should be decreasing between checks if their business has been progressing at all.
The monthly/quarterly requirements are quite minimal, and anyone putting any effort at all should easily be able to sell enough product and/or consume enough product to meet those minimal requirements. After all, it is your business and you should be using at least some of the products. Like I said before, you shouldn’t be in the business if you don’t believe in the products yourself.
My advice on the training is get as much as you can initially, noting that Susan had just signed up. There is much to learn and you won’t learn it unless you are exposed to it over and over in the beginning.
After the first couple or so months, I think you can and should cut back significantly and focus more on the result-producing activities. You shouldn’t need the rah-rah seminars to keep you motivated. Your progress alone should keep you motivated, assuming there is progress (I know, big assumption).
May 17th, 2009 at 11:26 am
I’ve been approached by 3 people in MA (all in the same upline) – very outgoing, charismatic people and the senior most one claims to make upwards of $100K annually in residual income. While I have not asked to see evidenciary documents, I do think this may be true. Two of these three of these folks are pretty entrepreneurial in other areas as well – one has written a book, the other has founded a company (which subsequently failed, but was still a strong idea), etc. But I still find them to be very pushy about MA in every conversation I’ve had with them, and a lot of ‘baiting and switching’ goes on, from subtle to outright.
I have now taken the approach of telling them point-blank that I don’t think MA is of interest to me, however I would like to continue to stay in touch with them as I think they are cool people. I also always make it a point to tell them that I actually really like my job (which I do), as I think that statement usually disarms MA people as they’re not used to hearing that.
We’ll see how they react to both of my points, above. I will report back.
May 17th, 2009 at 11:30 am
PS – Grant, kudos on the success with monetizing this blog! Sorry to hear you have received legal threats, but I think it is sweetly ironical that you’ve figured out a way to monetize this inherently controversial topic. The more they diss you and your blog, the more money you make. Classic.
May 28th, 2009 at 2:49 pm
My god, kudos to you Grant! I met one associate in a mall and was given contact information. Until then I had never even heard of MA. As a graduate student I desired some unbiased information and found abosultely none, except for this post. It saddens me when the law is used to subvert the dissemination of information, but your persistence to continuously work on this issue is a blessing of freedom of speech. I completely agree with the idea that information, good or bad, should be provided to the general public and I just wanted you to know that you are doing a service to the public at large, even if it is a small one in the grand scheme of things. Thank you for your post, I now have a grasp at what MA is about. I had checked their website and had somewhat of an idea but was still left wanting more, that unbiased opinion that I had mentioned.
June 3rd, 2009 at 1:45 pm
True, no business is without risk… but without risk, there can be no reward.
But I guess for 90% of the population, it’s rewarding to work for a paycheck month to month to pay off bills and then hopefully retire broke by the age of 65 living in a retirement center… if you can even afford it.
Sad, but true.
June 3rd, 2009 at 6:06 pm
Yep, and I guess for 90% of MA distributors (my guess, but even if it is less it ain’t much less) it is rewarding to take that paycheck and send it to MA and get nothing back from it. Look at the MA Annual Report and do the math.
Sad, but true.
July 3rd, 2009 at 10:13 pm
Just wrote a long comment but forgot the security code.
To be brief as i’m tired not only of reading the entire blog page and of writing a comment that got deleted ill simply say the following:
I went to one of these meetings recently after being approached by a MA representative and here are my points:
1 ) you have to pay 5$ before the meeting and most likely you won’t be told about this before you get there. the presentation was poorly done and everyone in the room was either really young, asian or old. Most people in the room were distributors.
2) people buy products they deem safe and trust, not products they hardly know anything about and who aren’t “regulated by the FDA”. this is important as it’s only mentioned at the end of their presentation.
3) did you look around the parking lot? What kind of cars were there. You probably only saw lemons and clunkers like i did.
4) MA is just another pyramid scheme. Do you really think they can afford to pay 100% to everyone in a downline of 50 people? They are in business to make profit, not to lose money.
5) are their portals optimized for the web crawlers? Can you manipulate the SEO or are they scripted. Simply put, none of MA’s portals are on the first pages of google from what i saw. Also google doesn’t like duplicate content and will devalue those links. Hence why all the portals don’t rank high because they are all the same. if people can’t find you on the internet they aren’t going to buy from you.
6) they push that you can make 300$ month. From what i read, you have a minimum you have to sell or buy. Since your’e never going to get 10 – 15 people buying from your portal on page 20 on google, you are forced to buy products to meet quota. So you buy 2 bottles of their vitamins opc or whatever it’s called, which cost about 56$ ( which probably cost at equivalent value only 10$ each at GNC). So now you’re in the hole about 120. Plus you have to pay monthly fees for using their portal and for this and that. Let’s say another 100$. Finally you lose the remainder of your profit on expenses for going to the weekly meetings, the required out of state conferences, gas money on all of that and probably about 20 hours of time spent on recruiting. You could have made at least 100$ in the time you spent losing 300+$.
I will echo what grant and others said:
” if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is”
it is!
July 10th, 2009 at 4:10 am
no matter how much information that people have given, direct selling ‘distriburs’ will always be saying the same thing over and over again without truly explain their income from the business they joined.
here’s what they always point out:
– It’s a legit company, not a pyramid scheme nor similar.It’s a great company that treats distributors welll. No other company does this.
– They’d compare with publically known company like IBM.
– Follow the plan, you will success.
– they will accuse you for working anothre 50 years to get your 6 figure income. The funny thing is, the people who say this are still waiting for their 3-4 figure income.
– Good luck with you salary.
So here’s my word:
– In the best case scenerio, you could become millionaire, and one you have archieve that, how much is your toppest upline making?? Multi Trillion.
– If there’s privacy, they would not keep annoucing the uplines who gets promoted in their monthly magazine.
– Many of these people would still be working on a salary-based job and hoping someday their downline is enough, they could get out.
– This is more like a religion than a business.
August 21st, 2009 at 9:40 am
Very shady business tactics.
I was conned into going to one of their national conventions and I couldn’t believe the BS the execs were presenting on stage. They want you to buy tickets to every convention, every training session, every company events, and they want you to buy buy and buy some more of their products because, according to them, if you aren’t a regular user, you can’t tell marks about how great the products are. Then they preach you to never tell anyone that they work for MA before the marks “understand the business.” I guess some people are sensitive about their reputation. The founder actually told the audience to tell their friends to go suck it if they don’t like MA. He told the audience that their friends and family don’t give a flying fuck about them and actually want them to fail.
It was my own stupidity for trusting people who I thought were my friends. I don’t think teaching their distributors to lie to people is a great way to endear the company to the public either.
August 21st, 2009 at 1:01 pm
I completely agree with AC. A friend of mine recently joined MA and were brainwashed so heavily that JR becomes a god to him. Any negetivity I say about JR he will take it offensively, this is how bad he was brainwashed by going to the regular Wed and Sat workshop/seminars weekly. He also attempt to get me to join MA, but my high resistance to direct marketing finally hinders him off after several weeks of attempts.
My friend is from the country side(China), and wasn’t exposed to marketing and business world. So anything like promised quick rich or something like residual income(MA promises) attracted his attention.
I feel bad for this guy and I have tried several times to get him to understand the business strategy runs by MA. He would then tell me in MA they train you to become a leader and let the money to work for you instead you aftering the money. Early retirement were also preached in the events. This is all bullshit to me because if you are intelligent and capable you would run a business like MA and have people to follow you then you are a successful person, but he thinks following JR he would be come a successful one day(dream on…). Also MA makes their members believe that the company is the best out there that treats its member equal wealth if they work hard by selling MA products or invite FRIENDS and FAMILIES to a seminar(shady isnt it?).
To me JR is making money out of each individual of his follower by wanting them to go to their convention, seminars, workshops, and buys their products. Each of these occurance requires the individual to pay some money to the company. So just think about it who is making money?
August 23rd, 2009 at 1:32 pm
CW, during the convention, this JR said that he was brainwashed, brainwashed to be “successful.” And he said people should be brainwashed to be successful like him. LOL
Gotta give him credit, he and his company are raking in dough everytime a new person is converted, so I can’t knock him for being a good businessman.
It’s true that you cannot be a success if you don’t ever try, but this 2-3 year six figure residual income plan that MA promotes is ridiculous. It’s not impossible, but neither is winning the lotto. These two people who conned me have been at it for 3-4 years, and they’re making about $1000 a month despite devoting almost all their free time to the “business.”
September 6th, 2009 at 12:15 pm
This MA business don’t give you benefits whatsoever. Not even the basic 401k or health care. Because you are touted as independent distributor with paper signed every month to validate your sole idependent business but in fact you get the commision paycheck or so called residual income from MA. And because of this the company don’t have to give you 401k or health care benefits. Smart I would say for this JR guy.
The whole thing with MA is to use phychology to motivate its follower and then influence their mental behavioral thinking to make believe whatever the MA preach is the ultimate right.
October 15th, 2009 at 2:16 pm
I find it disconcerting at times to know that virtually anyone (even myself right now) can go on a blog and spew whatever they want to out. I believe in free speech but have to comment once in a while. To the person who wrote the very negative comments about Market America should really stay off the blogs…at least where MA is concerned. First of all, going to one presentation does not make you a authority on how this business works. Also, you commented about “no risks” and that a “red flag should go up” if they don’t mention it. You then refer (by link) people to the MA site that says…and read it…”little or no risk”. It didn’t say “no risk”. There is a difference. Most of all, your type of overview is unfortunately what some will read and that’s all they need to hear is one person speaking negatively and they miss probably the only opportunity they will ever have for achieving a real, solid, honest, wholesome residual income from a company that runs itself with integrity and for the good of all. Compare that to your corporate America now and see who stacks up better. We win, you lose.
October 15th, 2009 at 4:16 pm
Ah, MGuernsey. I never said I was an authority and I don’t think I’m all that negative. I just think people need to ask real questions and verify the answers, then make up their mind. I also said a lot of the claims from some don’t add up. MA’s very own numbers (in their financial report) support my point of view, not yours.
As for the risk, I’d encourage you to reread: http://www.marketamerica.com/corporate/index.cfm?action=services.wpCorpBiz (I’ve included a snapshot of it at http://www.grantingersoll.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/ma-snapshot.jpg. It _very_ clearly says little TO NO RISK. Not “OR”. Besides, that’s just semantics, the fact is it is not little risk either. Running a business is always with risk.
As for MA being some person’s ONLY opportunity for real income, give me a break. If you go through life with such a pessimistic attitude you are bound to fail. Life is full of opportunity both within corporate America and on your own.
And, yes, it is real easy to see which one stacks up better. Just look at the MA financial numbers. Even in an optimistic scenario of only 5000 Unfranchise owners (and we all know there are way more) the average payout is not all that much (go see http://www.unfranchise.com/lib/downloads/USA/corporate/AnnualReport.pdf) The report says that in 2007, MA paid $105M in commission and $110M in gross retail profits ($215M total). Now, divide that by a _VERY CONSERVATIVE_ 5000 owners (MA people on this blog have stated it is more like 100,000 owners). That’s still only $43,000 a year in annual income for an owner. Nothing to sneeze at, but that is not a path to wealth either. Are you telling me you can’t find a job in corporate America that doesn’t pay you $43K a year? Don’t you kind of wonder why MA doesn’t publish, in their report, how many owners there are?
Want to see some other fun on the financial report: just take a look at Note 6 in that report, they even have MA leasing office space, etc. from the “controlling stockholders”. It’s all legal, no doubt, but their actions are pretty much the same as any corporation in America that knows how to work the tax laws, etc. I don’t fault them for it, I just don’t get why y’all think you are are not working for some corporation when all you really are is a very cheap labor force for the MA Corporation. I bet you don’t even get health benefits.
Also, pray tell, why does MA need $22M worth of Yachts? Have you been on the Yacht(s) yet, MGuernsey?
Finally, just like any other corporation, those who get ahead are the ones with the skills, luck and network to do so.
As always, do your homework, ask the hard questions and then make up your mind.
October 18th, 2009 at 11:20 pm
Thanks for putting this site up, Grant. I was approached by someone from MA recently and I wanted to do the research on it online for myself. I read through all the replies and appreciated everyone’s comments. I feel compelled to throw in my own 2 cents since it took me so long to go through everything. =)
If MA made an effort to ensure that their business was spread via people like ‘livinglife’, then there wouldn’t be such a negative perception of MA. Unfortunately, it sounds like there are people out there preaching MA in a shady way that makes it seem like a scam. The person who approached me falls under this category. Correct me if they already do, but why doesn’t MA put a stop to these tactics since it’s just giving the company a bad reputation?
October 19th, 2009 at 6:03 am
I am very neutral on the whole Market America scheme and structure thing, they are a business founded by someone, NOT A CHARITY, so no one should expect the company to share everything they made equally and try to make everyone happy, they are a business after all. MA tries to give everyone an opportunity to make money, but in order to get that opportunity, you need to pay them for the opportunity and you need to find ways to help expand MA by introducing new people to MA. The concept really isn’t too confusing, for anyone interested, you need to understand how MA works, what MA really want to get out of you, and then ask yourself whether you are the type of person who can make it work for yourself.
The reason why I am posting and writing some of the things in detail, is to share my personal understanding and opionion about MA. Maybe not be 100% accurate, but I try my best.
Although I only attended one meeting and not all that interested in becoming a distributor, speaking from my personal understanding of the whole MA deal, just like many people above have pointed out, IN ORDER TO BE SUCCESSFUL, you need to spend some serious time, effort and money (let’s not act like a few grand for start-up fees, products, conventions, etc, is chump change for most people), BUT there’s no guarantee you will succeed even if you seemingly have understood and done most things correctly.
One thing is for sure, all or most of the MA reps/master distributors/top-line people will try to sound as positive as they can, they can even give you individual names of people who have made good fortune since joining MA, but one thing I don’t like is the fact that they never really want to talk about the plenty of cases where a person joined, seemingly have done most things correctly, followed a team, gave good honest effort, but never accomplished much at all, never met the original goal even if the person has spent more than a year or two. In my opinion, when the MA people do their presentation, they ONLY focus on the possiblities of great outcome, which is too good to be true for most people, they avoid talking about anything negative that are very likely to happen to your average joe’s.
Plenty of people have signed up for MA, properly trained, motivated and devoted, some of them definitely have achieved their goal in terms of having a quality 2nd income, or best case scenario, true wealth, but it’s very obvious that only a small percentage of all distributors have accomplished that. These MA reps will go on about how so many of these successful people are ordinary people just like you and me so everyone can do it, it’s all up to you to grab this opportunity. But oh boy oh boy, if you really think about it, no, no, no, these people who really made a fortune and took advantage of the opportunity presented by MA are more than likely not your average joe’s in the first place.
From what I understand, to be truly successful, not only you need to find and recruit at least 2 good left and right leg people (more the better), you DEFINITELY need to form your own group, or join a REALLY GOOD team, but you need to be a good contributor to the team yourself and capable of doing beneficial things for others, otherwise who needs you? Good teams always looking to expand by picking up capable person who can help the group one way or another, in return, members of the group don’t mind to help out the new person quite a bit if needed, it’s all for the greater good at the end of the day. Hey, no wonder MA reps always talk about how people need to follow the system, MA reps/top-line people are there to help, but you NEED to follow the system. By following the system, that means the person is someone who’s contributing to Market America, even if he/she doesn’t do much at all as a sales/distributor, in some ways, MA will try to “take care” of the person by reminding the person “eyes on the prize…”. Even if the person ends up dropping out, MA as a company already got what they wanted. Any distributor that turns out to be successful and capable of recruiting new people into MA is icing on the cake.
If you ask me why all the meetings held by MA people? One thing is to keep all the active distributors in touch, in order to have them motivate and help each other out, but the biggest reason is to advertise MA to new people. In order to keep MA growing and to have the top-line people keep on making money (so they will stay happy and help expand MA, maybe bonus involved?), they need to have new people sign up and join. Whenever someone decides to join, the upfront fees don’t seem to be that much, he’s only required to buy a relatively small amount of MA products, once the person signed up and paid, worst case scenario for MA is that the person quits right away, but MA as a company, already profited off of the person since he paid the start up fees and bought certain amount of products.
More to be continued…
October 22nd, 2009 at 3:25 pm
It’s a funny thing. The people who conned me are still trying to get me to join them even though I have told them I am cutting them out of my life. I agree wholeheartedly with LJ that livinglife’s upfront approach is far superior to the shady deceitful approach these people used on me. I have nothing against people who do Market America. Even though I don’t believe the return is worth the effort that’s needed to even start making ANY money in MA, I would be willing to listen to a business presentation. But if they are going to go around conning people, that’s totally fucked up and they deserve a good asskicking.
October 26th, 2009 at 10:36 am
I’m in MA and proud of it. I hold the same standards, beliefs, attitudes and approaches to others that livinglife does. That’s why it disappoints and saddens those of us like this to hear about all the incredulous MA distributors out there. I don’t normally comment on blogs, and I’ll only say this… As in anything in life, please don’t judge all of us by the actions of others.
November 10th, 2009 at 12:08 pm
I’m providing an update to a post I published on Dec. 27. I’ve had people e-mailing me asking what we do. We have nothing to hide. The company we work with is called Melaleuca. They’ve been around for over 24 years and in the BBB Hall of Fame.
Our most recent paycheck from them was approx. $5,500 (we show a photocopy of it to prove our income). And starting a business with them is an optional, risk-free way to supplement your income. In fact, it’s only $1.00 until Nov. 23, then it goes back to the regular $29.00. And it’s helping individuals and families save money and time from a shopping standpoint, along with improving their health and overall quality of life as well as some that are struggling financially in this challenging economy.
If you’d like to set up an appt. then feel free to e-mail us at thewestlunds@msn.com. We learned a little over one year ago, it sure can’t hurt to explore all of your options!
November 15th, 2009 at 11:27 pm
And for the record, there is no such thing as the BBB Hall of Fame.
So if you ever hear that, you will know the person is either lying or repeating someone that lied to them.
November 15th, 2009 at 11:37 pm
Doh… I take it back… there IS such a thing in some states… but it means you have been accredited by the BBB for 50 years… in others words, still a lie if used to market MA.
MA however IS accredited with an A+ rating by the Better Business Bureau.
http://www.bbb.org/greensboro/business-reviews/product-brokerage-and-internet-marketing/market-america-in-greensboro-nc-4002355
November 27th, 2009 at 11:18 pm
Grant,
Thanks for this blog, and your attempts to present a balanced perspective on a very polarizing topic. You remind me very much of an acronym a marketing professor in college used = TANSTAAFL (There ain’t no such thing as a free lunch). Another blogger’s reference to “Caveat emptor” is also appropriate. The sad thing is that outside of this post, there is very little on the Internet (Thank you, Al Gore, for inventing it!) on MA outside of MA’s own material.
I sat through a presentation (via the web, thankfully) tonight, out of an obligation to a friend that has been asking to present the “business plan” to me for many months now. It reminded me very much of the endless circles that were drawn in Amway presentations in the early 90’s. I am like the engineer on the blog – give me the facts, and I’ll work it out for myself whether or not it makes sense for me.
After the first presentation, I am thinking no. How does working my butt off to build a pipeline (or whatever) for 2-3 years while I have a 50+ hour per week corporate job (that pays very well, thank you, plus health insurance, 401K, pension, stock options, employee stock purchase) so that I can maybe make a few grand per month in residuals down the road, provide me with more time for my family and to do what I want in life? It’s not going to happen without a lot of effort (nothing good does) and time that I don’t have to spare at the moment. Doesn’t make sense to me, but I’m sure it does to some folks.
Thanks again for the blog, and best of luck in life to all participants in this lively topic.
Dubya
P.S. Dude – Your anti-spam codes are crazy hard to read.
December 15th, 2009 at 12:42 pm
I was approached earlier this year. to join MA. I had asked for all of the manuals/guides/info etc in hardcopy format so that I could review all the trimmings before signing up. The rep told me no need, you probably wouldn’t understand it anyways (to much business jargon) and I can explain it to you better. So stupid me I said ok. I had my doubts from the beginning, and I should have listened to my instincts. I tried finding some info online (outside of the MA website) but got nothing. I signed up as a UFO, and then was mailed the manual after (shady much?) After I read through the manual I became increasingly uneasy and disappointed in myself for what I had signed up for. My MA reps had failed to mention the BV requirements for each month/needing to guarantee sales/annual renewals..and all other b.s. that would have def made me think twice before signing up…however you live and learn right?
All my reps told me was that these products are so good, and blah blah blah..but I wanted to know what MA could do for me as a middle class working person with a full time job, which in the end was nothing. Their selling point is why work more to make more, that buy joining MA you work less and still make a decent profit. And what they don’t tell you is that you DO need to recruit people in your downline to make profit..that you DO need to make minimum purchase requirements to keep your business, you DO need to renew every year, you DO need to pay a monthly maintenance fee..and if you can’t sell and provide 2 sales receipts every quarter, and you forget to renew, or what not you’re a dead duck. There is no leeway if you can’t sell anything (what kind of business is that) no leeway if you don’t make your BV requirements. In the end I agree with the others who have posted here, that most UFO’s are probably purchasing most products themselves to make their quota..and therefore are spending more of their own money, than their potential return. And do people even realize how much needs to be made in order to get the minimum $300 cheque?? Come on..I am a middle class person, barely making it, and you want me to buy/sell detergent for $15 to other middle class folks…My honest opinion is that MA was and is designed for the upper class with a larger disposable income.
I have to say that Grant what you’ve done here is a great thing, bringing some light onto this topic. And I can’t seem to comprehend why people on here are disputing the fact that you need to be educated before you make a decision on anything! And correct me if I’m wrong but seems like that’s all you are saying.
December 23rd, 2009 at 12:07 pm
I recently went to a MA presentation because I wanted to check out the truly amazing and HUGE MA mansion in South Beach and get some free food and drink
I a marketing specialist with 15 years of experience and a university degree in business administration and economics and therefore asked a lot of question regarding the business model and the presentation itself (right at the beginning there is a slide that says that 28% of all people who reach 65 years of age are dead -> ROFL). Especially where to money was coming from to pay out commissions to “unlimited” levels of unFranchisees. It has to come out of product margins and the fees that MA UnFranchisees pay for joining, training materials and seminars, right? And since the product margins are finite by definition…
This and other reasonable but inquisitive questions were not answered. Basically I was (nicely) told to shut up and listen to the presentation. But that didn’t make it clear either.
My impression: The “get rich in 2-3 years” scheme is to lure poor suckers in. That ties in with the luxury on display (the mansion, yachts, celebrity friends of the owners etc.) which seems to be designed to blind people and keep them from doubting the business model and asking too many questions. After all, most people know in the back of their minds that what seems to good to be true usually is – but then people are also great at self-deception (consider the millions who play the lottery).
I think that if the products are decent (my research indicates that they may be) and, by virtue of your “other” job, have a good target market already (NOT friends and family until you want to antagonize them) then becoming a sales rep (not “legs” required and no fees involved) can be a good idea.
BTW, the yachts are all called “Utopia” – isn’t that ironic?
December 27th, 2009 at 3:22 am
My curiosity is with the top selling items at MA. They are all or mostly all the supplements they tout but are not approved in any way.
Second as an example is I looked up the dog food I buy for my dog. Beneful in the 10oz container. The site says they partner with PETCO. It says the price is $16.99. Is that for 10oz? It’s $1.57 at Target. And I think it said there is a $.34 something or other I guess the MA person gets for the sale. What does all that mean and why would anyone pay the outrageous prices on the site for things?
January 2nd, 2010 at 1:29 am
It is true that not anyone can make residual income in their life without willing to put effort in a proven business.
And, it is also very true that not everyone has the vision to see the future with MA’s system. For those people, just find other ways to move along in life, simple.
i’m glad that i’m not one of those tho.
January 2nd, 2010 at 7:21 am
That’s funny, Mikky, because you sure wouldn’t get that picture from the people who talk about MA. Remember, it’s “little to no risk”!
January 20th, 2010 at 12:37 pm
Interesting conversation. It is interesting because most of the negative responses are only conjectures and assumptions from people who haven’t read or listened to the MA presentations or plan description. Their are clear requirements and clear controls which keep the distribution of income fair. I have been in the business for 5 years and make a comfortable 5 figure income. It is residual. I just recapped my sales for last year and I, passively, sold $9000 of product. I say passively because they were repeat orders from the 6 customers I have. They went to my website and purchased. I did nothing. I closed my web design business 2 years ago because it was nothing but cost and I had to constantly be looking for more work and justifying my invoices to people who didn’t understand the effort. Now I work 12 – 15 hours a week and support myself and my family on a decent income that keeps growing slowly. I help a lot of small businesses stay in business with this eoonomy and create a retirement income for later. Is it work? Yes. Do I work as hard as I did with a franchise I purchased or jobs in the past? No. MA is a business…It is not a “sign up” club, a purchasing club, a sit and do nothing and the money will come to you club. I work with business owners because they know that a business has requirements and they know how to work for themselves. No free rides.
It is surprising to me at the people who don’t do the business. I don’t know why they are there but every organization has them. When I talk to them…NO they haven’t read the business plan, NO they don’t go to the trainings, NO they don’t read the email notices. NO they haven’t followed suggestions. Many people cannot get out of their own way.
MA is not perfect but it is the best thing I have seen for the average person that is willing to learn, follow a system and give it some time.
Risk…how about this one. Growing old and never experiencing true financial freedom. That was my biggest risk. The money?? I have spent more on a computer or plasma screen tv than the first year’s net “investment.” I’ll bet you have, too!
MA isn’t for everyone..Thank goodness we don’t need many people.
January 20th, 2010 at 1:05 pm
TL,
Thanks for the input. I see a lot of conjecture, claims and assumptions on both side of this debate. One that I don’t think is conjecture is that you are not the norm for MA, given the numbers in the MA annual report. Sure, if there are only 5000 Unfranchise owners, then there are 5000 owners making a 5 to 6 figure income, but you and I both know that isn’t the case.
I do, however, appreciate your insights. As I said on the other thread, http://www.grantingersoll.com/2007/08/25/making-money-on-market-america/, if you had been the introductory person to me and my wife all those years ago, this post likely would have never existed.
Good luck to you!
February 7th, 2010 at 2:17 pm
I love how fired up market america reps get. They act like you are insulting their first born or something instead of some huge corporation.